Helm Minutes for 2021

December 16, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Butcher   
Notes:   Karena   	 
Issue Triage:     was unassigned for the week that ended today

Announcements
This is the last meeting of 2021
no Helm call on Dec 23 or Dec 30
We will resume this call on Thursday January 6, 2022.
Next release: minor release 3.8 on Jan 19, 2022
Not a patch release
Milestone in progress (review PRs, ideally by Jan 10!): https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/113  
Release candidate goes out Jan 10 (monday before)

Discussion
[Karen] KubeCon CFP reminder, May 17-20, Valencia Spain - Hybrid Event
Deadline is tomorrow, December 16 - https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-europe/program/cfp/ 
Maintainers talk deadline is later in January
If two talks: Panel + Non-panel (in the past, could be two co-speaker talks)
Early bird pricing ends January 7
[Karena] cfp topics?
[Scott] helm 4, sdk improvements for extending to other tools
[Butcher] I have also heard that they are looking for good case-study or “this is how we use Helm” talks from people CNCF describes as “users” rather than “contributors"
[Farina] idea for Scott … flux, helm controller .. ‘how we built something using the helm sdk’
[Scott] workarounds they might be able to highlight, improvements?
[Andrew] oci level distributions … how client model might change, how package, etc.
[Scott] OCI alignment
[Farina] List of things: https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10393
When fall back don’t pass url, pass directory (think is a minor issue)
[Butcher] correct fall back sequence
[Farina] version range support.. Only one unsure about
Work w ORAS team to satisfy version range support

Assignments for next meeting - Jan 6, first meeting of 2022!
Moderator:   Karena     
Notes:     Bridget  	 
Issue Triage:     Dec 16-Dec 23 (Allen Bai), Dec 23-Dec 30 (Scott), Dec 30-Jan 6 (Butcher)

December 9, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Marc    
Notes:     Bridget	  
Issue Triage:     Farina

Announcements
3.7.2 was released yesterday
Butcher: mostly dependency updates but also some bugfixes
Meeting next week, then a break until January

Discussion
[Paul Vollmer] demo of helm-playground, a webapp to render helm charts in the browser.
https://paulvollmer.net/helm-playground 
Early stages - interested in feedback on https://github.com/paulvollmer/helm-playground 
Tool for testing/quick iteration
Renders automatically when changing values
Perhaps we could set up play.helm.sh eventually - what’s the next step to bring this to the community?
Currently no data recorded/only local WASM
Next step: HIP to incorporate this into helm docs
[Butcher] compare to vscode plugin for helm, to see how to incorporate with IDE
D Peraza - could incorporate helm test
Butcher: be interesting to be able to upload a chart or template
Paul: goal is to allow people to see results immediately
Butcher: webassembly is an interesting way to package up templates


[suggested by Bridget] any update from Farina, Josh, and Butcher’s discussion of Moving OCI integration from experimental to full feature · Issue #10393 · helm/helm 
They met and triaged the list in that issue; currently 6 items need to happen:
 Adopt Helm best practice for altering build affix in versions when pushing to OCI #10166
 Move internal/experimental/registry out of internal package #9188
 Documentation only: Helm v3.7.0 OCI Helm push to ecr gives 404 Not found #10169 (comment)
 Forthcoming issue: @jdolitsky re DOCKER_CONFIG
 OCI: no version range support for dependencies/helm install #9694
 helm registry login cannot use existing config file for authentication #10156

[Bridget] do we want to get a second review of https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9318 and get this bugfix for Helm pull fails if pulling from a repository that redirects to another domain · Issue #9317 · helm/helm merged in for 3.8?
Mentioned - we shall see 


Assignments for next meeting - Dec 16, last meeting of 2021!
Moderator:    Butcher   
Notes:   Karena   	 
Issue Triage:     TBD



December 2, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Farina     
Notes:    Karena  
Issue Triage: week 1 Scott, then week 2 Butcher    
 
Announcements
3.7.2 scheduled for Dec 8 - https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/115 
Second wednesday of every month
[Bridget] when to get in any last minute items?
[Farina] end of this week is the best - has to be a bug (not feature)

Discussion

[Bridget] Schedule for the rest of this year(!)
Thursday Dec 9 - meeting as normal
Thursday Dec 16 - meeting as normal
Thursday Dec 23 - cancelled
Thursday Dec 30 - cancelled
Thursday Jan 6 - back to normal

[Josh] If OCI will not ship for 3.8 due to various reasons, consider transferring internal/experimental/registry/ into new Go module “helm.sh/registry” (github.com/helm/registry) so vendors can start innovating and improving
Josh/Scott/Farina met to discuss getting OCI out of experimental
Concerns: lack of dev resources / feature gaps
https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10393
Version ranges .. not finished
Business logic to implement api’s ..?
Lessons learned: more proj mgmt
What is the MVP?
[Josh] need document to clearly outline the requirements and issues to work on
Alias support: https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10013
[Farina] Need to go through the list to determine what still needs to be worked on, what needs to be added, etc.
[Joe Julian] distinction between sufficient API and feature complete
Farina/Josh/Butcher meeting this week to discuss further
Additional topics?
[Luke] https://github.com/helm/community/pull/224 if there is time
Release objects stored wherever they are stored
[Farina] strict decoding of yaml objects .. unsure if do that with release objects. Okay with recording in a release object. Generally okay but wants to look into more details to verify.
[Butcher] could potentially put behind a feature flag .. question: will it break the API on the release object? Build processes would have to take on the burden of building the tar balls
[Farina] digest checking and reproducible digests would be great .. want to keep in scope

Defer to next week when Kent can join [Bridget] Kent Rancourt asking about introducing new template file: https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10074#issuecomment-973097624 

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:    Marc  (and Butcher on dec 16)   
Notes:     Bridget	  
Issue Triage:     Farina


November 25, 2021 - no meeting (US Thanksgiving)

November 18, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:     Butcher
Notes:    Bridget 
Issue Triage: Farina   

 Announcements
[Bridget] no Helm call next week for US Thanksgiving Thursday Nov 25
[Bridget] 3.7.2 scheduled for Dec 8 - https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/115 
Add your bugfixes now!
Patches have been added already!
Get those k8s dependency fixes in, with a single PR to cover the content of those automated dependabot PRs - help wanted on that PR
[Farina] Allen Bai as Triage Maintainer
Congrats! Next step: PRing in himself to https://github.com/helm/helm/blob/main/OWNERS#L12 
Thanks to all for patience as voting can take time

Discussion
[Scott] OCI update
upgrade oras to 0.5.0, refactor client oci logic to use new oras.Copy() #10294
ORAS project meeting today
Plan to cover ORAS project community maturity #9
Josh: experimental features will wait for after 1.0
Farina: we’re interested in the Go API
also semver contract
Dependency issues - older k8s packages being imported - keep eye on containerd versioning
WIP to remove containerd dep https://github.com/oras-project/oras-go/issues/52
Thanks to Josh, Farina, and all working to get this over the finish line
Josh: number 1 request for OCI is semver matching
https://github.com/oras-project/oras-go/issues/47


[Farina] An alternative template delimiter - https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/10299 
Other systems like Prometheus have options like this
However, affects execution
[Butcher] Also might cause a breaking change - a silent failure if a chart couldn’t be rendered
Scott - new chart version?
Butcher: yes, this is a severe breaking change to templates - we’d have to do a version increment on charts.
Farine will update issue
Butcher: likely we’d want a HIP for this as well


[Farina] Reproducible builds (and further security things)
https://reproducible-builds.org/ 
https://slsa.dev/ 
Joe J: https://twitter.com/puerco/status/1461176447742226440 SLSA in this month’s patch releases of k8s
We’ve had PRs in the past but would need tests etc
[Scott] yes, as long as we feature-flag this
[David P] does the tar spec claim it will create the same digest output?
[Farina] Go sort order issues, and the timestamp, are why this varies
[Scott] chart repo automation currently has to work around this

Defer to Dec 2 [Bridget] Kent Rancourt asking about introducing new template file: https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10074#issuecomment-973097624 


Assignments for next meeting (no meeting Nov 25 - next meeting Dec 2) 
Moderator: Farina     
Notes:    Josh  
Issue Triage: week 1 Scott, then week 2 Butcher      

November 11, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Karena 
Notes:   Butcher 
Issue Triage: Scott shadowing Martin   


Announcements
[Marc] Welcome yxxhero as new triage maintainer!
Vote was a while back, but he is now officially in OWNERS file
Still some open votes for the maintainers, so vote now!
[Marc] Patch release cancelled for this month - No new commits since 3.7.1
There were no committed changes, so nothing to release.
Farina: We will discuss getting some momentum
[Bridget] no Helm call for US Thanksgiving Thursday Nov 25
Just a reminder that since many maintainers are in US, we will cancel that meeting
Karena: We had discussed canceling some other meetings during the holiday season



Discussion
 [Bridget] Josh opened an issue to discuss what we’d like to see in OCI support: https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10312 - any new thoughts? Next steps?
Josh opened an issue for what should be coming, and it would be good to get some opinions recorded. We can return to discussion when Josh is present. 

 [Bridget] Can someone check and perhaps merge the current dependabot PRs? (do we want this to be part of triage tasks for the week?)
There are several Dependabot PRs that should get some attention. And the longer we wait, the harder they are to merge.
Could this be considered triage work?
 


[Farina] How do we get more merged?
Core maintainers are quite busy right now (with other things), and with no single corp overseeing Helm, we need to come up with a way to get people engaged in reviewing/merging
We have more maintainers, but not enough to make a big difference here
So what can we do to help with that?
Dpereza: Will more maintainers fix this?
Farina: Maybe, but that does require more work
dpereza: RH does indeed have interest in doing more than this, but we’re unclear on how to start that. What do we do TODAY to set us up to be stronger maintainers in the future? (There are 3-5 people on this team)
Farina: I will help get this going. Feel free to come bug me to help you. I’m in ALL the Slacks.
Karena: What about the dependabot PRs?
Bridget: Can these be triage tasks? Or are they more than that?
Farina: Three of them need to be combined into one big PR, and that will require someone to actually do the work. One big k8s library update.
Marc: Someone from RedHat did this k8s merge in the past. Does anyone remember who? [Will look up]
Farina will write the Help Wanted issue for tracking the k8s upgrade
Marc: It was Shoubik who had done some in the past.
Discussion about asking Shoubik to do this again (David will follow up).

[Bridget] What do we think of this Slack integration request? https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10291 
Installing the slack app on the repo… do we want to do this?
Do projects do this? Is this a good idea? Does anyone want to investigate?
Butcher: I will track this one

Assignments for next meeting  
Moderator:     Butcher
Notes:    Bridget 
Issue Triage: Farina      


November 4, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Martin Hickey
Notes:   Bridget Kromhout
Issue Triage:   Scott Rigby - will reach out to other folks for backup

Announcements
[Bridget] Next scheduled release: 3.8.0 on January 12th, 2022 https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/113 - review items in there!
Is 3.7.2 still planned for Nov 10? https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/115 has no items in it yet
[fisher] No. we preemptively create the milestone per HIP 2: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0002.md . If nothing is scheduled for a milestone, then we have nothing to release
[bridget] okay. I wasn’t sure how late an item could be added.
[Fisher] when we have nothing to release we extend the date


Discussion
[Bridget] Upcoming holidays - shall we cancel this call for US Thanksgiving on Thursday Nov 25? [yes] Thursday Dec 23? perhaps Thursday Dec 30? [let’s ask closer to the date]
Bridget and Karena will be out for all three
Fisher: generally speaking most people won’t be at the calls these dates
Martin: I will also be out
Resolution: We will cancel the Nov 25th call and ask about the December ones closer to the time.
[Bridget] does anyone know offhand if the OCI support as of 3.7.1 fixes this bug? https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/8090 
[fisher] that should be fixed as of Helm 3.7+. Added a comment
We can revisit this if it doesn’t work in 3.7+
[Josh] clarity around :version versus --version: https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/8090#issuecomment-961222358 
[Scott] update on ORAS/Helm OCI progress
upgrade oras to 0.5.0, refactor client oci logic to use new oras.Copy()
Josh D, can we connect on how to update the test?
Josh: new API in oras makes it more flexible - this PR validates it still works with the new API - but there is an issue with how layers are sorted - perhaps need to hear from Farina? But it may not matter.
[Fisher] possibly docker may rely on order for layers - “if docker relies on layers being ordered in a certain way because of the nature of a copy-on-write filesystem”
Scott: PR in question: https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/10294 

Assignments for next meeting  
Moderator:   Karena 
Notes:   Butcher 
Issue Triage: Scott shadowing Martin    


October 28, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Marc
Notes:  Karena
Issue Triage:  Scott shadowing Farina

Announcements
[Marc] New triage maintainer: yxxhero
Welcome!
[Karena] KubeCon Maintainer Session - Combined views (in-person + virtual): 1223

Discussion
[Marc] Should triage maintainers be added to the OWNERS file?
[Farina] makes sense to have it
AI: Marc to send email to maintainers
[Josh (who cannot attend)] Merge me! https://github.com/helm/helm-www/pull/1228
Several issues is the queue related to OCI may be prevented, since the current registry docs are misleading/contain old commands
People have command line documentation
old vs. new
[Scott] I am reviewing
[Adam] - PRs to bump
https://github.com/helm/helm-www/pull/1228
Labeling releases:
https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/8099
Alternatively https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9560
[Farina] Expectations: next minor release (January) for these PRs
[David Peraza] question on pre-GA install
[Farina] k8s versions look semantic but are not semantic
Helm uses a semver check
According to semver, use ascii character map so start w/ using zero
[Farina] could have better help documentation
[Scott] quick update from last week on Helm OCI & ORAS dependency. Moving forward!
Communicating closely w ORAS maintainers (Josh, Sajay, Avi etc)  and collabing with volunteers (David P, Andy Block, Josh Wolf, Tom Runyon)
[Marc] Triage maintainers
Voting on Allen too
And Scott

Assignments for next meeting  
Moderator:   Matt Farina
Notes:   Bridget Kromhout
Issue Triage:   Scott Rigby - will reach out to other folks for backup

October 21, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Bridget
Notes:  Scott
Issue Triage:  Farina

Announcements
[Bridget] 3.7.1 patch release went out last week. Next scheduled release: 3.8.0 in January https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/113 

Discussion
[Bridget] does someone want to check and approve/comment on the outstanding dependabot PRs? https://github.com/helm/helm/pulls/app%2Fdependabot 
Dependabot will keep them up to date, so if they’re still open, we can review and merge them 

[Scott] feedback on OCI status
Issue, SDK users can not import helm's OCI support, because it is EXPERIMENTAL (note this is by design for now for a good reason)
quick note on earlier idea for helm/registry breakout proposal. Chat prior to HIP
Met with Josh & Matt Farina before and during KubeCon
Now: prefer to instead help push Helm OCI support over the finish line. Shoot for January
Scott: people should not be using experimental features in production, but they are. Next steps: the gaps are almost all closed, so suggest we push over the finish line. Biggest blocker: oras backwards compatibility
Target: the January 3.8.0 release
Volunteers:
Scott
Andrew Block
David Peraza
Josh Wolf
[Scott] will push this forward
set up a simple collaborative process for the busy folks who want to help (scheduled meeting? just async? whatever is pragmatic & easiest)
start with checklist of required things to do
coordinate with Bridget
coordinate with other ppl who have volunteered to collaborate on this
coordinate with Josh for reviews


[David] New member asked to bring this up in call: https://github.com/helm/helm/pulls/mmulholla 
 Will follow up (we were KubeCon-ing last week)

[Farina] summary of community online meeting during KubeCon
OCI and CRD questions as usual
		
[Bridget] HIP review: https://github.com/helm/community/pulls 
Anyone can comment

Assignments for next meeting  
Moderator:   Marc
Notes:  Karena  
Issue Triage:   Scott shadowing Farina


October 14, 2021
Cancelled due to KubeCon :-)
Join office hours on Bevy instead!
Tuesday, October 12 • 9:00am - 9:45am Pacific 
Friday, October 15 • 10:30am - 11:15am Pacific


October 7, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Karena
Notes:  Scott
Issue Triage: Farina

Announcements
[Bridget] reminder: no Thursday Oct 14th Helm weekly dev call due to KubeCon
Join office hours on Bevy instead!
Tuesday, October 12 • 9:00am - 9:45am Pacific 
Friday, October 15 • 10:30am - 11:15am Pacific
[Farina] 3.7.1 patch release next week (being cut by Farina)
Cutting this on Wednesday next week : https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/114 
https://helm.sh/docs/community/release_checklist/ 
Marc: new pick and push process



Discussion
[Nick Jennings/Ramindar/Dhanashree] Surfacing container logs in Helm?
https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/7728  and https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/5952 
Matt Farina: check out the https://github.com/helm/chart-testing project
Joe: could potentially be a helm plugin. Not yet sure if you do it within the atomic loop (though you could if you made your own command).
Matt Farina: Nick is looking to do something that's not custom
Joe: agree, though it could start out custom prior to a HIP
Nick: agree that would be a good way to move ahead
Marc: legit use case though right?
Matt Farina: workaround is not use atomic flag, and manage the rollback logic on one's own (follow Unix philosophy of "do one thing well", rather than complexity of single command with all of those flags)
Karena: ensuring there is a clear next step
Nick: yes recommending partners either to not use atomic flag, or re-run without atomic flag on failure. And the next step is either 1. HIP, or 2. Helm plugin. Matt Farina recommends again looking at helm-testing project because surfacing some of those logs for testing has already been done


 [Tom Runyon] Standardize Annotations to identify images used by Helm Chart.
ArtifactHub uses the annotation `artifacthub.io/images` to identify images used by the chart [Reference].   This helps ArtifactHub show the scan results that are not clearly visible by rendering/templating the chart e.g. here. 
Other use cases exist (e.g. bundling artifacts for airgapped/off line deployments, generating SBOMs, etc) and having a global (helm) standard would facilitate tooling built around the specification of images required to use the chart.
Proposed:  `helm.sh/images` as seen below:

Andrew Block: this is important for Red Hat - “related images” - https://docs.openshift.com/container-platform/4.8/operators/operator_sdk/osdk-generating-csvs.html#olm-enabling-operator-for-restricted-network_osdk-generating-csvs 
Scott Rigby: agrees there should be a standard - this doesn’t require much from Helm other than stating something is “supported”
Farina: we’d need to agree and document
Tom R: happy to do that work
Farina: this would definitely need to be a HIP and I would be supportive of it


(move to Oct 21?) [Scott] If time, feedback on earlier idea for helm/registry breakout proposal. Chat prior to HIP



Assignments for next meeting (Oct 21! No meeting Oct 14)
Moderator:  Bridget (or other!)  
Notes:  Karena 
Issue Triage: Farina for week 1; someone needed for week 2  

September 30, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Scott 
Notes:  Bridget
Issue Triage: Butcher


Announcements
[Bridget] Hosts needed for KubeCon online office hours (held on Bevy):
Tuesday, October 12 • 9:00am - 9:45am Pacific (to be led by Matt Farina)
Friday, October 15 • 10:30am - 11:15am Pacific (to be led by…?)
[Bridget] 3.7.1 patch release would be during KubeCon - schedule adjustment?
Farina: I can still cut this release that day
[Bridget] reminder: no Thursday Oct 14th Helm weekly dev call due to KubeCon
[Scott] Oct 5th 10 AM PST, Martin & Scott present a feature showcase on Helm + Flux at CloudNative @Scale SF: https://twitter.com/r6by/status/1443596965946744839


Discussion
[Farina] Artifact Hub storing validation in OCI registry for charts there…
	- “The repository metadata file can now be added to Helm OCI repositories. This allows using features like verified publisher or ownership claim on OCI based repos. For more information about how to add it to your repository please see the Helm OCI section in the repositories documentation.”
Artifact Hub asking for input/feedback on this feature, and asking you to add the metadata files - similar to provenance files
This is different from “verified publisher” - see https://artifacthub.io/docs/topics/repositories/ - important for businesses etc

[Bridget] Inactive repo cleanup - I’m proposing we archive three repos due to minimal content and no activity:
https://github.com/helm/query-store-quay-logs - Farina: running this stopped working - nobody noticed - Farina will send out a lazy-consensus and run it by the charts team
https://github.com/helm/repo-audit - was a tool intended for audit/features - unsure about what we should do about this - perhaps there is a way to do this via artifact hub - check for digest changes/security/provenance files/chart-testing-tool/etc - interesting to dperaza - Farina will change master branch to main
https://github.com/helm/specs - based on a request to document specs - Farina believes we need to do this - Farina will change master branch to main


[Bridget] OCI/mediatype question - do we know what we want to do with https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/10182#issuecomment-927377309? 
Farina: this is an issue with user confusion around experimental features - plugins will be a more clear delineation in the future

[Scott] who wants to make a PR against Helm Governance for using the private maintainers list for new maintainers voting.
[Bridget] I already have a PR open against governance to update from last year’s HIP-005: https://github.com/helm/community/pull/210 
Bridget will request that clarification - according to farina, self-nominations should happen on public list, then vote on private list


Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:   Karena
Notes:  Scott
Issue Triage: Farina

September 23, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Matt Farina
Notes:  Bridget
Issue Triage: TBD

Announcements
[Bridget] Karen Chu has added the last year of meeting recordings to the playlist linked on https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/communication.md#meetings 

Discussion
[Bridget] September is proposed as a Helm 4 decision time - what is our next move? (Brought up by Butcher at the Sept 7 meeting - defined in HIP 12) 
 [Bridget] The original plan mentioned possible kickoff activities at kubecon north america 2021, which is fast approaching.
Butcher: the plan is for a release engineer and perhaps also a PM/architect role - the HIP said we’d have this person in place by the end of September - thus far we are slipping timeline-wise - perhaps we need to revisit post-holiday-season.
Butcher so perhaps we amend HIP-12 with a redefinition of the roles to two instead of one, and for a resumption post-holidays
Action item: Butcher to carry out HIP replacement (lol)

[Bridget] 3.7.1 for bugfixes?
OCI: Allow any mediatype for layers on download #10176
[Josh] old charts being rejected is not ideal, but this bugfix would allow less-strict checking.
[Farina] debated in the original issue as to whether we should accept the old media type as well - what’s changed?
[Josh] the community reaction has motivated this increase in flexibility
[Farina] we should log deprecated media type - patch is in a couple weeks
[Farina] instead of experiments, we should look at plugins in the future (because of how this has been treated)
[Josh] helm-push plugin is broken due to “helm push”
https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10175  
Action item: Josh will submit update for the patch release


[Karen Chu] Helm at KubeCon
Ways to participate
Online office hours (RSVP - held on Bevy): Tuesday, October 12 • 9:00am - 9:45am Pacific and Friday, October 15 • 10:30am - 11:15am Pacific 
Hosts needed! Please sign up here and we can connect you with CNCF - Karen will connect with you to ensure you are signed up on Bevy.
Maintainer session: Wednesday October 13, 2021 11:00am - 11:35am PDT Concourse Hall 150 ABC + Online  
Project Pavilion booth
Online
In person  - possible to sign up for participation (we have it half the day - mornings each day)


[Andrew Block] Helm + Sigstore: Presentation plus very short demo
Helm Sigstore Plugin Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjY26RRHpo8 
Sigstore is not SIG Storage
cosign, rekor, fulcio
https://github.com/sigstore/helm-sigstore 
Scott Rigby: please join the Helm chart talk at KubeCon


Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Scott 
Notes:  Karena
Issue Triage: Butcher

September 16, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Karena
Notes: Bridget
Issue Triage: Fisher

Announcements
Helm 3.7.0 has been released https://github.com/helm/helm/releases/tag/v3.7.0
Fisher: community identified code regressions, which are now fixed - RC3 was cut and now we’ve released 3.7.0
[Marc] should we clarify the breaking change further (OCI charts only)?
Fisher: yes, there are significant changes to the experimental OCI support - see the HIP on the OCI support: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0006.md 
Charts will need re-uploading
Fisher: documentation needs to be updated in accordance with this change
[Marc] we may need to clarify the release notes
Farina: Josh D did a gist on how to update: https://gist.github.com/jdolitsky/66e0768ceedb6eab7395422e86e16a53 
Action item: Release notes update by Marc



Discussion
Helm 3.8.0 release date
[fisher] I looked at the calendar and tentatively scheduled it for January 12, 2022 (second Wednesday, four months from now). Lazy consensus vote?
Fisher: the HIP says quarterly - 4 months from now would land in January
Farina: January is good - but Jan 3 would be too soon to cut the release - let’s push a week - RC 2nd Wed in Jan, Release 3rd Wed in Jan
Action item: Fisher will send email & update the release calendar
Marc will add Fisher to the calendar
[Karena] Triage shadowing session
[Karena] pairing is challenging - can we schedule a session for walking people through triage?
[Fisher] perhaps we need to define what this is?
[Bridget] Do we want a one-off triage onboarding/shadow session?
[dperaza] Async would be valuable as well, but I would attend a one-off orientation
Stephane: also please record the session and document it
Karena: resolution: 
[Bridget] KubeCon logistics
Shall we cancel the Thursday Oct 14th Helm weekly dev call? [yes]
Who wants to host online office hours, Friday Oct 15 10:30am-11:15am pacific, https://sched.co/mtNO? [Maybe Farina but let’s check later]
Who’ll be onsite for KubeCon? (We have an in-person project pavilion spot.)
[Karena] Please comment here if you’re going to be onsite in Los Angeles
Bridget: I’m planning to be there
Karena: I’ll be there!


[Marc]: Wondering if dynamic completion of plugins could have security implications? https://helm.sh/docs/topics/plugins/#dynamic-completion
Butcher: Helm can’t secure unknown 3rd-party code on behalf of the user

[Karena] Helm youtube channel
Who maintains/uploads community videos?
[fisher] The CNCF provided a zoom plugin that will automatically upload Zoom recordings to YouTube. They own the account, but have shared access to myself and Karen (Helm Community Manager)
[Scott] progress on helm session technical focus on charts
[Bridget] Skipped this so pulling it out to highlight it 💖
Building, publishing, sharing charts!
[David] Can we demo sig-store for the community call?
Fisher: we’ve had demos here before but it’s nice to have a video ahead of time to pre-watch and then discuss on the call 
Farina: a recorded demo on youtube is far easier to share

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:  Matt Farina
Notes:  Bridget
Issue Triage: TBD

September 9, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Matt Fisher
Notes: Karena Angell
Issue Triage: Matt Butcher
Announcements
[fisher] Helm 3.7.0 delayed due to a few code regressions
Cut 3.7.0-rc.3 and look to release 3.7.0 after that
Next hour, release candidate is out
Next Tuesday for 3.7.0 GA
Discussion
[fisher] Helm 3.7.0-rc.2 update
[fisher] there is a fix available now available for #10112: https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/10117
Reviewed and approved
[Bridget] Helm at KubeCon NA 2021 - updates?
Project talk: 
Helm: The Charts and the Curious - https://sched.co/lV7H
Helm project booth
Online office hours
Friday, https://sched.co/mtNO
Scott, Paul, Carlos, Karena are giving a talk on how to improve your chart workflow - focused on people who are looking to better automate their talks, join us online or at kubecon
[Bridget] Triage maintainer nominations - updates?
One is being onboarded
If anyone else - there’s a HIP: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0014.md
[Bridget] Self-nominate! It’s easy and fun!
Don’t have to be proficient in Go or Helm - it’s a good way to learn
Joe Julian & Scott Rigby interested
[Andrew Block] Sigstore + Helm - https://www.sigstore.dev/
Sigstore for signing/verifying content
Helm package signing
https://medium.com/@sabre1041/setting-up-your-own-rekor-transparency-log-server-using-helm-fc7bbeafb59c
https://medium.com/@sabre1041/integrating-helm-into-the-sigstore-project-d51564ea001f
Sign Helm charts - not rewriting how they are signed today - taking content and publishing to a transparency log
Interested in feedback - future presentation will demo to the group
Farina: would love to see Helm work published to transparency log
Pgp keys?
Farina: pgp was when we created things - integration with gpg not as good anymore
Josh: helm push - if sees  file, will upload over oci distribution … would be cool to detect sigstore plugin

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Karena
Notes: Butcher
Issue Triage: Fisher


September 2, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Martin
Notes:   Karena
Issue Triage:  Farina 


Announcements
3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 
Revamped OCI integration
Breaking change to previous OCI experiment
Under experimental flag
Josh dolitsky
Useability
Any volunteers to test??
API changes:
push/pull from registry, certain manifests pull from there (breaking change)
Action package - tried to move some of the api stuff out
“should be” clearly documented
CRDs out of the chart - helm show crds
SIGTERMS on upgrade/install

Discussion
 [Itai Spiegel] Including external files in chart. https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/10077 
Broke api compatibility - PR not ready for review yet
 [Butcher] Helm 4 Release Manager
“It is time!”
Release manager - most of architectural decisions
Roadmarkers
PM’y but more architect role
25-30 hours of work per week
Decide by end of september - go/no-go then
Or nominate Adam ;)
Needs to be existing maintainer of helm/helm code base
Requires some coding and managing PRs with PR authors
David: break up the role?
Andy: cover multiple geos
Julian: 30 hours per week for how long?
6 months?
Butcher: We could also break it into PM-like tasks and coding tasks, and create two distinct roles
Once decide on person(s), can kick off the process
What are the bounds for this release?
[Scott] Feedback on HIP process for detecting changes to objects that are the result of a Helm release (rather than only mutations to the storage like helm-diff)
Command that compares helm storage state with a live cluster state
Helm controller from flux and Helm operator had to do a lot of workarounds to ascertain the info - should this be a HIP?
Farina: Helm 3 - 3-way merge patch
Mutating web hooks
E.g. Service mesh
A tool like this might fail / raise those thing instantly in a case like this
Farina: what’s the use case?
Butcher: And Kubernetes itself mutates things (in ways that change from k8s release to k8s release)
Butcher: a HIP sounds like a great way to discuss this
[Karena] Blog post for this release
Loves the mentions so far about what's landing in this release
Any other notes over the next 3 mins?
Farina: a bunch of new features. Maybe have time to craft full release notes Wednesday? Will have to look at closed pull requests because there were so many

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:   (Bridget if no other volunteers)
Notes:   Karena
Issue Triage: Matt Butcher 


August 26, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Adam
Notes:  Bridget
Issue Triage:  unassigned

Announcements
3.7.0 RC scheduled for Mon Aug 30 (next week!), with 3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 
Call to action: review (and/or update) PRs for 3.7.0

Discussion
[Farina] Download cache HIP and security… https://github.com/helm/community/pull/185 
[Farina] Possible security issue if index.yaml file intercepted/changed, leading to a wrong version being installed
[Farina] Perhaps checking which version is being requested would mitigate?
[Butcher] that reduces the risk to local filesystem attacks
[Farina] this cache also covers cache environment variables
[Butcher] we have extraneous cache environment variables
[Martin] for helm 4 - one cache to rule them all!
[Karena] how does this tie back to the overall security story?
[Farina] many factors for security - like signed indexes - but yes, a security-centered approach is wise
[Farina] we should discuss https://github.com/sigstore/helm-charts 
[Karena] Andy would like to come on to discuss
[David Peraza] let’s discuss/bring in more folks
[Farina] We could look into more caching items before Helm v4

[Martin] Would functionality to clean failed revisions be useful? Came up as a conversation in https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10056. 
[Farina] In Helm 3 there is a limit of 10 by default
[Martin] Failed revisions that people want the ability to clean up
[Farina] We don’t garbage-collect if all the release objects are failures
[Farina] perhaps we should start with a garbage-collection plugin?
[Martin] that is better than telling people to edit the cluster directly
[Farina] a plugin called `gc` would be a good place to start
[Martin] will raise as a feature and see if someone has the bandwidth

[Farina] Helm v4 - context, dependency injection container, or something else… 
not being able to get to information we didn’t know we needed is making the SDK hard or unusable for non-Helm apps. 
See https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/10008 as an example. 
Looking for way to solve this in v4.
[Farina] plugin can have wrong directory due to tight coupling
[Farina] dependency injection may be the way to do this
[Farina] hypper work has shown this currently has some issues but we don’t have a way to avoid it now - perhaps in v4 we can change it.
[Butcher] context object or directory perhaps, but building a dependency injection pattern may be useful
[Farina] context or CLI will both work interactively vs in a CI pipeline
[Butcher] possibilities chainable context tuple pattern
[Karena] Do we want to have a working group at KubeCon?
[Butcher] Karen did request space for a planning session
[Martin] remote participation options?
[Bridget] I can join a device from an in-person session as needed

[Martin] Do changes to an interface break backwards compatibility according to Go conventions? 
We have precedent in Helm 3 where an interface was changed in https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/8363. 
Should we therefore allow it to be changed in https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9702? 
Can’t see it mentioned in the backwards compatibility HIP: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0004.md 
https://go.dev/blog/module-compatibility
[Martin] we can probably get this in for 3.7
[Farina] this isn’t documented in the backward-compatibility rules
[Butcher] but it is documented in go’s guidelines
[Adam] modifying an interface is a breaking change
[Martin] we did merge a PR that breaks the interface

[Bridget] do we have any update on adding triage maintainers?
[Farina] Need a few more votes from maintainers for the first candidate

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:   Martin
Notes:   Karena
Issue Triage:  Farina 


August 19, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Bridget Kromhout
Notes: Matt Fisher
Issue Triage: TBD

Announcements
3.7.0 RC scheduled for Mon Aug 30, with 3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 
Call to action: review PRs for 3.7.0
New FAQ entry for tiller download questions: https://helm.sh/docs/faq/troubleshooting/#tiller-installations-stopped-working-and-access-is-denied 

Discussion
[Itai Spiegel]  Add --include-file flag for external files: https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/8841 
Writing a helm chart for deploying applications, using the first helm chart as a dependency
Looking for a summary of Helm’s architecture to help move the feature forward
[Fisher] recommended step - first, reach out to the original author of the PR - perhaps you can see if their timeline matches yours
Itai: yes, I sent him email with no response
[Fisher] It’s fair to work on an alternative if you don’t hear back
Adam - he can open a new PR with the existing commits (Butcher: as long as the DCO is in place from the original committer)
Adam (on rollback): when you send up files on an install, these files are added as templates, not configuration in parts of the chart
Additionally, there is a security concern of including files
Itai: we’re fine with this. The security concerns is not important in our case.
Bridget: just because security concerns are not important in this use case doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be concerned about security leaks
Itai: okay. So I’ll go and test/document this with regards to `helm rollback`
[Bridget] progress on OCI support - https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9782 
[Fisher] Adam, Butcher, and I have reviewed this PR in detail - the only removals are internal so in terms of public packages, nothing has changed - one change to adjust, and another PR to merge first.
Adam & Fisher to pair
[Bridget] Call-to-action to contact Josh Dolitsky later [emailed]
[Stephane] next steps for https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9180
Had some conversations with FIsher about how to get this into Helm 3.7.0
[bridget] added to Helm 3.7.0 for visibility

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:  Adam
Notes:  Karena
Issue Triage:  TBD


August 12, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Adam Reese
Notes:  Bridget Kromhout
Issue Triage:  Matt Farina

Announcements
3.7.0 RC scheduled for Mon Aug 30, with 3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 
patch release (3.6.4) scheduled for Wed August 11 has not occurred: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/112 
PRs were not in shape for merging
Cancel 3.6.4 and move those items to the 3.7.0 milestone?
Farina will do this cleanup step
Call to action: review PRs for 3.7.0

Discussion
 [Fisher] HIP 14 (Helm Triage Maintainers) update
https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0014.md 
Let’s sign on new maintainers at a lower commitment level, to help with PR review and triage
This role does not handle release management or event coordination
HIP is approved - Fisher has created github “Team”
Some candidates in the pipeline
Nominate candidates using the same process as for core maintainers
Action item: PR this clarification in - this role falls under https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/governance/governance.md#project-maintainers specifically for helm/helm
 [Martin] Generate `values.schema.json` during  `helm create` https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10009 
Should this be added or do we keep the scaffold chart simple and the basics to better help users onboarding to Helm?
Adam: “create” should be as simple as possible - let’s not add to the base “create” command
Fisher: https://github.com/karuppiah7890/helm-schema-gen - this plugin is not currently maintained, but this discussion happened before
Farina: “create” is already too complex - Helm 4 could make that simpler - but starter templates could also be easier.
Fisher: compare https://github.com/cargo-generate/cargo-generate - values schemas can be quite opinionated
Martin: next steps - I might create a proposal and perhaps a HIP for Helm 4
Scott: we’ve talked about a “wizard” before but that is too much complexity for helm itself (as opposed to being a plugin)
Fisher: yeoman is great for creating wizard-like templates. we've been using it in a few projects. https://yeoman.io/ 
Scott: docs improvements ideas could be migrated over from the legacy charts repo
Martin is going to carry this discussion forward (helm create, templates, best practices, wizards…)
Adam: the `helm create` command is tied with our backwards-compat constraints, so let’s keep it simple to put the practices elsewhere, to preserve optionality
Scott: Decoupling that could make backwards compatibility for v4 easier to maintain
[Martin] `helm repo update` commands return exit code 0 regardless of errors or not https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/10016 
[Martin] Code implemented to just output any errors but does not return an error back to cobra. Is this expected behaviour? 
[fisher] dropped a comment in the ticket providing some historical context
Fisher: “helm serve” was mostly a convenience but this behavior might be a workaround for that
Fisher: define “failure” - what if _some_ updates succeed and others (like helm serve) don’t and that is expected?
Fisher: we could consider this change for Helm 4 with a HIP - let’s not surprise people by changing 5-year-old behavior.
Martin: agreed, this is how it works, but maybe we reconsider this for Helm 4
Fisher: _all_ failing definitely is exit code 1, but it’s ambiguous after that (as to if we need _any_ or _all_ to succeed).
Farina: it’s possible that a CI system could end up silently succeeding in doing a non-update (which could surprise unfortunately). Let’s get a HIP with a good case with examples of apt and similar
[Bridget] should we create a new blog post or FAQ item with the current status of tiller images to point people to when they’re asking, now that the legacy storage bucket is starting to be cleared out?
Action item: Bridget to write updated FAQ entry

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Bridget Kromhout
Notes: Matt Fisher
Issue Triage: TBD

August 5, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Marc K    
Notes: Jasper 
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

Announcements
Next patch release (3.6.4) scheduled for Wed August 11: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/112 
3.7.0 RC scheduled for Mon Aug 30, with 3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 

Discussion
[Bridget] is there an open issue or HIP that relates to “OSI model for signatures”? A note at the end of https://helm.sh/docs/topics/provenance/ implies there might be, but I do not see it. 
[Farina] Unlikely going down this path. May go down sigstore path. 
[Shoubhik] https://github.com/sigstore/helm-sigstore 
Doc needs to be updated to reflect latest. [action item: Bridget]
[Farina] Helm 4 (and the release engineer) Target Oct 2021
HIP 12: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0012.md
Need to identify Release Engineer for Helm 4 
Require to be Helm/helm maintainer to be release engineer
Role and responsibilities: Person who oversees Helm 4 from technical coordination
[Scott] Want to help with SDK component. Can help wrangle and flesh out SDK-related stories (I have a new vested interest in this side of things, as I'm also co-maintaining Flux, specifically will help maintain the Flux Helm Controller)
[Martin] Do we have enough stories, features for Helm 4?
Defined in HIP on how to short circuit progres to halt development
Kick off meeting to be scheduled
[Shoubhik] When should we discuss what will go into Helm 4
[Farina] Opportunity for breaking changes. Require HIP to describe request
Consider topic of Helm Releases on cluster
[Farina] Helm is a package manager and does not enforce a specific style. Need to understand how it works in a specific scenario.
[David] Helm having multiple resources in templates but the user does not have permission to perform action
[Farina] Helm work like other tools and depends on user permissions, Helm stores releases in secret. Can have a limiting experience. Helm can store information in other locations (eg configmap). 
Can we improve the experience earlier during or before the installation 
[Paul C] Opportunity for a plugin to perform this check
Consider split responsibilities to install different components of a chart
[Farina] This is release management and beyond scope of a package manager 
[Scott] SDK issues. For example, race conditions when using SDK for storage locking within package. Locking could be moved to the CLI. Here is a related issue in helm/helm, but we have many more in fluxcd
This may be fixed by https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9180
[Farina] Opportunities to improve Helm 4 CLI and SDK
Need to brainstorm for using SDK to flush out stories 
Action item for Scott to lead
Need to consider alternatives on how to capture this feedback.
[Marc] PR to add some completion descriptions (HIP 8)
For 3.7?
https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9421
https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0008.md
[Bridget] Where to track Helm 4 ideas? Attached to a HIP or create separate HIPs?
[Farina] use HIP to track all changes

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:    Scott Rigby
Notes:  Bridget Kromhout
Issue Triage:  Matt Farina

July 29, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Marc Khouzam
Notes:     Karena Angell
Issue Triage:    Matt Fisher/Martin

Announcements
Next patch release (3.6.4) scheduled for Wed August 11: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/112 
3.7.0 RC scheduled for Mon Aug 30, with 3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 

Discussion
[Martin] Support for bearer token authentication https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/8447 
Farina: it’s stale because it still needs work
Farina: want to pass via stdin, need to be security conscious
Farina: just need to think through the implementation details in the PR
AI - Farina to follow-up
[Martin] Go SDK installing Kubernetes resources to the wrong namespaces https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/8780 
Farina: two namespaces - k8s resources diff than the records; can only set it once when you instantiate
Need to instantiate k8s client with new namespace
Farina: no way to change this until Helm v4
Farina: there is a very ugly way (running long running services that want to keep doing things) to do this currently, Helm v4 would be to simplify this
AI - Farina to share code (from https://github.com/rancher-sandbox/hypper) where it’s done
Farina: initializing isn’t setting it right

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Scott Rigby    
Notes:    Jasper 
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

July 22, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Martin Hickey
Notes:     Karena Angell
Issue Triage:    Martin Hickey/Matt Fisher

Announcements
Next patch release (3.6.4) scheduled for Wed August 11: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/112 
3.7.0 RC scheduled for Mon Aug 30, with 3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 

Discussion
[Martin] Install chart from remote repo should it get the latest dependencies https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9962 
If helm repo add and then the person says helm install
Fisher: expectation, would fetch during build or helm dependency update
Andrew: hard dependencies
Fisher: shouldn’t run a helm install and have it run and get any dependencies without you knowing
Fisher: further inspection needed
AI: ill look into more

 [Martin] Helm create a namespace from template which it installs into https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9965 
Namespace plus custom labels
Fisher: tricky problem to solve
Fisher: Helm 1&2, original assumption, installed by Sys Admin
People didn’t setup acl’s for their grpc endpoints
Mitigated in 1&2, things stored in release record vs release namespace
Changed in Helm 3, user installs
Resource quotas in namespaces, etc
Helm 3 - move to kubectl approach
Create namespace ahead of time
Same as CRD problem
Fisher: Documentation? How to manage namespaces outside the chart
Fisher: namespace mgmt recommendation - one is to use helmfile

 [Martin] Adopt resources to a release https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9958 :
Any docs for this feature?
Potential bug: https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9958 
Issue with migrated releases because labels/annotations didn’t exist prior to Helm 3.2.0
Fisher: If you can get hold of Jacob, best person to talk to
Fisher: Alternative, look through the code and create a HIP
A little familiar with the code
AI: Martin to reach out to Jacob

[Karena] Helm 3.7 blog / release themes:
Any themes popping up for next major release
Do people think it is a good idea? Do anyone want to work with Karena to create a blog of it?
Fisher: happy to help
Open Initiative PR?
Also look at Helm 4 HIPs 
Fall? Helm 4 discussions starting
[Fisher] call for more reviews on Helm Triage Maintainers HIP https://github.com/helm/community/pull/199
Martin: should look at it too

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Marc Khouzam    
Notes: Karena Angell     
Issue Triage:   Matt Fisher
  


July 15, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Bridget Kromhout
Notes:     Jasper Chui
Issue Triage:    Matt Farina

Announcements
[Farina] Yesterday (Wed July 14) patch release (3.6.3): https://github.com/helm/helm/releases/tag/v3.6.3 
[Farina] Next patch release (3.6.4) scheduled for Wed August 11: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/112 
[Farina] 3.7.0 RC scheduled for Mon Aug 30, with 3.7.0 release Wednesday Sept 8: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/111 

Discussion
[Bridget] repo cleanup project
We merged https://github.com/helm/monocular/pull/691/ - should the repo be archived in the github UI?
[Farina] We can click the clicky
should we archive https://github.com/helm/query-store-quay-logs ? 
[Farina] Need to check if its still in use
Used to store metrics for quay
Data kept for 2 months from public source. Source of data into this repo
[Farina] 3-way merge patch and CRs https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9937 (feature or bug)?
Need to clarify expected use case 
Not intended for CR
[Adam] Written when kubernetes does not support 3 way merge
Behaviour has changed and needs to be updated
Which release should include this
Documentation is too general
[Martin] Inconsistency bug and documentation bug, could break backwards compatibility
[Bridget] Open issues in repo to address the documentation bug
Target fix for Helm v4
[Farina] Feature change needs to be included in major release
behaviour change needs to be behind a flag
[Marc] Building in Kubernetes without Docker, any experiences?
Build container in a kubernetes cluster
[Andrew Block] Use Shipwright and Buildah
[Josh] use Kaniko
[Farina] Docs bug or Helm bug with no repo dependencies… https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9928 
Sub chart in a chart can only exist in a directory in a repository not a chart archive. Doc says that it could
[Adam] Would work if it’s listed as a dependency
[Farina] It is not a dependency
[David] Doc bug and feature to support archive in future release
[Martin] How did it work in 3.x?
[Farina] Checked original source. It is not a regression
[Farina] version field and file:// in dependencies… should it be optional? It was until a recent bugfix but it’s not documented as optional… https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9944 
PR already submitted to fix
Is this a doc defect for a file?
Suggestion: Update doc to mark this as optional in the file scheme  
Next step: Version is required and not optional
Identify as a bug to be addressed

Assignments for next meeting (note: Farina, Bridget, and Adam will be gone - volunteers needed)
Moderator:     Martin Hickey
Notes:      Karena Angell
Issue Triage:   Martin Hickey



July 8, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Adam
Notes:  Karena  
Issue Triage:   Farina

Announcements
Next patch release (3.6.3) scheduled for Wednesday July 14th: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/110 
Farina: one more pass at PRs this week then gtg

Discussion
[Farina] indexes in OCI registries
(continued from last week)
Butcher: they’re storing the apt index in an image layer
Experiment with a plug-in
 [Farina] --repo flag and username/password https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9599 and https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9760 
Note, this same idea would apply to `helm install` and `helm upgrade`
https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9599
Doesn’t do set when `helm repo add`
Is it a bug but is anything else actually using it?
Bug or feature change?
Fisher: feature addition in helm 3, PR merge
Farina: like it, when should it be released?
AI: Farina to dig into it to look if is a regression or needs to be in 3.7
Adam: should apply to any repo
[Farina] Move to GH Actions… https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9921 
Example of CI issues… https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9763 
Takes 30 mins / timeouts on linting
CircleCI performance issues
Fisher: this is going to get worse over time, GitHub Actions could help run tasks in parallel
Josh: GH action for golang ci lint tool - maybe consider
Farina: linter deprecated error?
Adam: open PRs will have to rebase on it
Josh: if use GH Actions, can keep running Circle in parallel
Farina: start doing Windows testing in GH Actions
[Fisher] HIP: Helm Triage Maintainers https://github.com/helm/community/pull/199
Intermediary role? Help triage, shadow
[Bridget] relevant to Adding HIP 7 to document subprojects https://github.com/helm/community/pull/156 as well? Roles for charts maintainers?
[Marc] Is updating a single repo safe?
https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9845
What happens if you update in one repo, will it update all?
Marc: recipe does a helm repo add (which doesn’t do an update)
Helm repo add; helm repo update
Andrew: wants more control over when to update
Marc: risk in inconsistency
Farina: dependency mgmt handled, thinks it’s okay
Reduce bandwidth, and mem
[Scott] Maintainers track talk for KubeCon NA
Technical talk focusing on Charts for the Application Distributor role (working doc for anyone interested in contributing to content we end up talking about). We'll schedule some collab sessions for slides etc
CTA: any topics you think should be covered? Speak up!
[Marc] Dependabot details?  Why hasn’t it picked up Cobra 1.2.1?
Too many dependabot issues?
Please create a PR!



Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:    Matt Fisher
Notes:     Jasper Chui
Issue Triage:    Matt Farina


July 1, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Bridget
Notes:   Butcher
Issue Triage:  Fisher

Announcements
Farina: releases
Released 3.6.2 as fix for regression this week.
Fixes a bug that became more pronounced by security fix
Next patch release (3.6.3) scheduled for Wednesday July 14th: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/110 
Ask: Maintainers, please review PRs in that milestone

Discussion
[Bridget] helm org cleanup continues
Can we complete https://github.com/helm/hub/pull/484 so we can archive the helm/hub repo?
Bridget: Process was started but not complete. Anything blocking completion?
Can we archive https://github.com/helm/repo-audit ? Seems to be an experiment that may be concluded.
Bridget: Any reason not to archive?
Farina: This was started for helm hub and charts to audit and make suggestions. For example, checks digests in index file. I don’t know if people still want to build this. Part of chart maintainers projects

[Farina] Automatically adding repos during build processes… https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9840 and https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9841 
Certain commands will error out if a repo has not been added, forcing the user to add the repo manually
These issues want to add a repo on the fly, but that causes a security issue. (A new source of dependencies is added to your system at the chart author’s whim)
Butcher: this can mask the source of untrusted packages - with the recent software supply chain attacks, this is particularly inadvisable
Joe T: this is similar to distro package naming conflicts

[Adam] annotations nested in List objects are not respected https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9829 
(continued from last week)
Adam: Annotations on items within a Kubernetes list objects are not respected. Only top-level items on a Kubernetes manifest. This is because during the top parse of an object, we only check its object metadata. What we should do is respect annotations on objects embedded in the list.
Paul: It seems fair to say that we only respect annotations on the top-level object, and ignore the items in the list
Farina: A “keep” on a nested item in a list: How would we handle that?
Adam: We’d have to do something like “if this is a list, then iterate on the items in the list.” and that will actually turn very complex over the lifetime of an installation. So I would prefer what Paul suggested.
Farina: The alternative seems to be complicated and brittle logic. We could do something in `helm lint` to warn a user of this. And update docs. 

[Bridget] https://github.com/helm/community/pull/172 Proposal for HIP-0010 on the distributed pick process - we have a second LGTM now - can we merge?
Bridget: We think this is ready to merge.
Farina: I will do one final review and merge


[Farina] indexes in OCI registries
(continued from last week)
Quick review of where we ended last week. 
Farina: Should we support indexes inside of an OCI registry, ignoring the locking problem? And how do we support searching, version resolving, etc. The main thing is that we want to continue supporting all of the features available outside OCI registries now
Josh: In OCI, can list tags on a namespace, which means we could list versions if we knew the name of the chart. Index files in OCI today would suffer the same race condition that we have today. With my current PR, we are adding extra rules to OCI so that the chart name MUST be the last element in the name, but we could reserve other parts of the namespace for other things -- like putting the YAML file. If we could host a list of just the basenames and not versions… We could add an extension to the Docker Distro server…
Farina: Would prefer not to need registry-side add-ons
Josh: Could, for example, create a list object that would list all of the chart names for a given user…
Farina: But… (I missed the objection)
Josh: We could make a new media type for the existing index file and store/retrieve that, pointing to the full blob path
Farina: If you have a namespace, can you list all the things in it?
Josh: No. And by design it seems changes to the spec will take longer [Butcher: See Vincent’s email on OCI dist list two weeks ago]
Farina: The search functionality is the outstanding problem. Apt transport on OCI has come around recently. Curious how that works. https://github.com/AkihiroSuda/apt-transport-oci
Josh: Only thing in the Discovery API on OCI Dist is which tags for a given object. 


Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:   Adam
Notes:  Karena  
Issue Triage:   Farina



June 24, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Scott 
Notes: Karena (Andy in for Karena)
Issue Triage: Adam

Announcements
Farina: Next patch release (3.6.2) scheduled for Wednesday July 14th: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/110 
Looking for reviewers
Butcher: Congrats to Martin for becoming an Org Maintainer for Helm! https://twitter.com/HelmPack/status/1408093811050311689 - also bringing in https://github.com/hickeyma/helm-mapkubeapis 

Discussion
[Bridget] What remains before we can archive the helm/hub repo? See question in https://github.com/helm/hub/issues/439#issuecomment-820598759 
Final steps have been complete and archive can be completed
Deprecation notice needs to be added
Action: Scott will PR in the “Obsolete” and click the “archive repo” in settings. PR: https://github.com/helm/hub/pull/484
[Farina] managedFields and manager… https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9859 
New field in metadata
Added in 1.18 and displayed in kubectl output. Hidden starting in 1.21
New field for Helm to be created to denote the tool that performed the action
[Farina] indexes in OCI registries
Challenge is that no metadata can be queried (no search API)
https://hypper.io/ is talking about putting index files into OCI registries
Fisher: review of HIP 6 OCI PR is ongoing
Challenge in a race condition and locking
What is managing the creation of the index?
Helm CLI? What about those not using the CLI
Josh: Why are we trying to implement a search mechanism?
Farina: Its important to be able to determine what is available and what specific versions
Scott: to follow-up next time OCI/Helm semver question: how do we want to handle chart semver metadata (+) as it's illegal in OCI spec?
Topic to be continued next week or in another forum

[Adam] annotations nested in List objects are not respected https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9829 
Only looks at top-level object
Maybe: cascade down?
Would be breaking change
If anyone has any thoughts, provide details in the issue and follow up next week.

[Can move to next week] [Bridget] https://github.com/helm/community/pull/172 Proposal for HIP-0010 on the distributed pick process - we need a second LGTM, I think? Can we move this one forward?

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:  Bridget
Notes:   Scott
Issue Triage:  Fisher


June 17, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Matt Farina 
Notes: Bridget
Issue Triage:  Adam

Announcements
[Farina] Helm 3.6.1 released. 
This was a security release (affects usernames/passwords for repositories)
Added a new flag to preserve the old behavior when needed
Next patch release scheduled for Wednesday July 14th


Discussion
[Bridget] HIP 6 OCI changes in flight for 3.7.0 (End of August): https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9782 - please review!
Josh: thanks for comments
Butcher: yesterday we tri-paired (Adam: tri-pairitops!)
Too large to review in one pass - we started with running everything, then looked at impacts on public API and actions
Josh: will respond to the first round of comments
Josh: tests: https://github.com/bloodorangeio/acceptance-testing/blob/hip-6-push/testsuites/registries.robot 
Butcher: read the HIP before trying this out - the HIP dictates the UX

[Bridget] HIP 4 - can we merge this in? Question for Marc/others https://github.com/helm/community/pull/145#issuecomment-848912289 
Needs a confirmation about not being able to change *.yaml at all
Needs another approval
Marc: this is the backwards-compat HIP - one unaddressed concern about yaml compat
Farina: we use strict parsing now, for security reasons - for those files we’re locked into the current schemas but can use annotations if we need to add things before Helm v4
Butcher: the security audit is here: https://github.com/helm/community/tree/main/security-audit 
Scott: we need to update the docs 
Fisher: this is due to limitations in yaml parsing libraries and how they handle duplicate keys - if someone wants to contrib that to the yaml parsing lib we could relax it in Helm v4
Scott: I will update the docs
Marc: I’ll reach out if I don’t see it there
Butcher: I’ll add the list to that comment thread on the issue
Farina: once that’s in, I’ll review it.


[Marc] Why was updating a single repo removed in helm v3? 
“helm repo update <repo>”
Missing PR?
https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/5182 
With many repos configured on my machine, a script would benefit from only updating the repo it cares about
Or helm repo add could cause an automatic update when repo exists?
Farina: This appears to have not been brought over to v3 - this would be an easy feature request to port over
Fisher: possible considerations around chart locking, but I don’t think we _chose_ to not port this.

[Josh] mailing list votes - should we add reminders to this call?
Farina: someone needs to track down all potential votes
Butcher: the project adoption one will be simple majority (4 org maintainers)
Mailing list vote this time for Martin

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Scott
Notes: Karena 
Issue Triage: Adam

June 10, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Marc 
Notes: Jasper
Issue Triage:  Matt Farina

Announcements
No patch release yesterday, as it would have been within 4 weeks after a minor release
Next patch release scheduled for Wednesday July 14th
Summer vacations make things quiet at the helm! 
[Farina] Tend to see some slow down in the summer

Discussion
[Bridget] HIP 6 OCI changes in flight for 3.7.0 (End of August): https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9782 
[Farina] Make OCI available as GA
Please review PR 
[Marc] What can be changed?
[Farina/Adam] As long as it doesn’t have UI impact can be changed 
[Farina] Some experimental commands are available when experimental mode is enabled
HIP (4?) in flight that defines what can change
Maintainers to Review and determine next steps
[Farina] Target end of July to ensure it doesn’t break anything. 
[Joe] A number of files are being modified and removed
Does impact public API
[Martin M] PR backlog  (154 PRs open)
What is the plan to bring this down to a manageable level?
[Farina] Usually hovers around ~100
Hoping to start going through these PRs if someone else can take over triage
Steps to maintainer is to provide constructive feedback on PR review
Anyone can provide review 
[David] Should we wait until tests are passing?
Security scan is gated but should not stop reviews
[David] Testing and verifying fix will be useful
[Farina] ensure test format is consistent with other tests
[Bridget] Chartmuseum repos proposed for Helm org membership: https://github.com/helm/community/issues/191 
[Marc] Martin will cherry pick for next release
Release branch will be ready by day of release
7 PRs in 3.6.1 milestones that are not reviewed
[Farina] Will try to review to get it in
Any help is appreciated

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Matt Farina
Notes:  Bridget
Issue Triage:   Adam

June 3, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Scott Rigby
Notes: Matt Fisher
Issue Triage: Matt Butcher

Announcements
[none]

Discussion
[Josh] Various HIP 6 questions
Experimental flag, internal/ vs. pkg/, removal of “helm chart”
“Pusher” interface - implement uploader plugins identical to downloader plugins?
Multiple requests made to fetch .prov, even though both chart and prov can be fetched at once
[fisher] is there a way to pass along the chart cache here? There’s a HIP open about provenance/chart caching that could help here too.
Is there a way in memory to extract chart metadata from .tgz raw bytes?
[fisher] I believe pkg/chart/loader has functions for this
“read” function - reader interface
[fisher] https://github.com/helm/helm/blob/bf486a25cdc12017c7dac74d1582a8a16acd37ea/pkg/chart/loader/archive.go#L188-L189
Output for “helm push” / “helm pull” - what info should we print to console? We have the chart metadata as well as the digest+size for the following OCI layers: manifest, config, chart, prov
[fisher] would this be useful to append as a PR to HIP 6?
Add --digest=<digest> flag on “helm pull” to verify manifest digest? Later?
The registry client not enforcing ref name - should people be able to push/pull charts wherever to/from they want when using it as a library?
[josh] looking for feedback on these items
[farina] we probably need to have all the new work land under “experimental” before we move to GA. Once made public, changes cannot be made until Helm 4
[josh] the underlying client is being completely overhauled, so it would be easier to change it all underneath. Is this OK?
[fisher] while it’s experimental, we can make whatever changes make sense - go ahead if needed to move the experiment forward
[scott] are there any thoughts on pulling out the registry package into a separate library/repository?
[josh/farina] I think the ORAS project handles this
ORAS: https://github.com/oras-project/oras
[farina] when can that become available for other projects? What are the requirements for removing experimental flag?



[Simon K] Anything else needed for https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9713 (brought up by David last time)? Next steps?
[fisher] will need two maintainers to review it (cdndoit18 is not a maintainer)
Adding a reproducible test case is a great way to help people see more
[Paul] Does anyone want to enter a Helm team for CNCFaceoff (https://twitter.com/mattstratton/status/1397565630975463432  )
[bridget] If they do, how should they reach out?
There’s a form in the tweet thread. - https://twitter.com/mattstratton/status/1397567060012580864


[Bridget] notification emails from ArtifactHub - do we need to do any followup?
 [farina] most of these emails come from charts that were in Helm Hub. It’s been more chatty because it’s scanning everything by default. I’ve been cleaning up these notifications as it’s out of our hands
[farina] if you post something on Artifact Hub, you can subscribe to notifications to be informed of any security issues



Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: [Bridget if nobody else volunteers] 
Notes: Jasper
Issue Triage:  Matt Farina


May 27, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Adam Reese
Notes: Karena Angell
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

Announcements
[Farina] 3.6.0 is released
[Farina] the release date for 3.7 is set to Wednesday September 8, 2021
Kubernetes 1.22 is scheduled for August 4th; this gives us time to test.
Looking ahead: there will be one more k8s release in 2021 (1.23)
[Butcher] Emeritus maintainers
Thanks, Vic & Brian!
Martin Hickey has been nominated as a new org maintainer
Discussion
[Farina] Generating reproducible tarball fix - https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9674 
Is it a breaking change to drop the timestamp?
Fisher: need to address a couple of things in the PR before moving forward. Spend time writing a unit test would be helpful
Farina: agree, need more testing - concerned removing the date could be a breaking change. Focus on whether stripping the date is a breaking change.
Butcher: Because some people use the hash to see when the tar has been rebuilt, even if its contents were the same
Butcher: And the Go implementation is different than BSD and Gnu tar, too
Scott: https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9674#discussion_r640793402
Maybe feature flag could solve it
Follow-up: Farina going to go back and address some things in PR
[David P] Wanted to bring attention to https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9713 as being blocked from running the gate checks cause it is a first time contributor. He will benefit from the automation to improve the PR as needed.
[fisher] approved.
Fisher: more nuanced - bitcoin mining!
Marc: trust github automation?
[Adam] Global values https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9333 
Needs another maintainer’s eyes on it
Fisher: wants to proceed with caution 
[Scott] If time, Farina do we want to discuss KubeCon NA session ideas on this call?
Farina: tech focused talk on charts
Fisher: yes, if other CfP doesn’t get accepted
AI: Farina will start a doc

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Scott Rigby
Notes: Matt Fisher
Issue Triage: Matt Butcher

May 20, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Marc Khouzam
Notes: Jasper Chui
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

Announcements
[Farina] Next release is 3.6.0, planned for next week: Wednesday May 26th
RC available for your evaluation: https://github.com/helm/helm/releases/tag/v3.6.0-rc.1 
Please test it out and let us know if there are any issues
[Bridget] Helm at KubeCon EU was a huge hit! Thanks to all who participated; start thinking about KubeCon North America! Numbers from Karen Chu: 
Tuesday, May 4 Helm office hours attendees: 458
Wednesday, May 5 Helm office hours attendees: 312
Thursday, May 6 Helm office hours attendees: 233
Helm project booth visitors: 1,233
[Karena] KubeCon NA - CfP deadline is this Sunday 11:59 PM PDT
Bridget is happy to review any proposals
[Bridget] Thanks to Karena for her work revising the FAQ on the docs site. It was previously focused on helm2->3, and she’s making it a more general FAQ.
Looking for additional topics to document
[Farina] Vic stepped down from Helm org maintainership
Credit for the CI infrastructure for stable/incubator - thank you!

Discussion
[Bridget] Reminder about the Helm repo audit - if you think you have repos to archive, you may be right! Please take a look; let’s keep moving this along.
[Marc] For Josh, regarding acceptance testing repo 
[Josh] Needing updates
HELP WANTED
[Farina] Pull sizer: designate size of issues 
Should not be deprecated as there are no alternatives
Help needed to determine if there are GitHub actions that could be used to achieve this function 

[Bridget] Have you commented on all HIPs of interest to you? https://github.com/helm/community/pulls has various HIPs to check out. 

[Butcher] Continuing discussion for HIP for Helm 4 planning and development process (HIP0012) 
[Bridget] Should we defer to next week?
[Farina] Highlights approach for Helm 4, including roles and responsibilities
Feedback is useful
[Martin] May need additional updates to branching.  Waiting on feedback from Matt Fisher
[Bridget] Should we say lazy consensus by next week?
[Farina] Need approvals from 2 helm/helm maintainers
[Josh] Is there a requirement to push for Helm 4
[Farina] Opportunity for breaking changes, api changes, clean up.  Requests from the community. 
[Martin] Need a list of PRs before Helm 4 kicks off


[S Bose] Support for the --hide-secrets flag, PR is good to go https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9130 
Bridget: should this go in milestone 3.6.1? 3.7.0?
[Farina] Requires approval from two maintainers
Soonest is 3.7.0 as it is a feature addition
Possibly 3.7.0 (September 8). Month after next k8s release

[David P] Pipeline doesn’t run and need approval from maintainer to approve
[Farina] This is a good forum to raise this 
New requirement from Github within last few weeks
Bridget: https://github.blog/2021-04-22-github-actions-update-helping-maintainers-combat-bad-actors/ 

[Bridget] Welcome Annie Wang, new intern on Bridget’s team


Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Adam Reese
Notes: Karena Angell
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

May 13, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Adam Reese
Notes: Karena Angell
Issue Triage: (2 weeks) - Butcher, Fisher


Announcements
[Bridget & Farina] Next release will be 3.6.0
RC planned to be cut Monday May 17th
release planned for Wednesday May 26th
[Bridget & Butcher] Butcher’s HIP for Helm 4 planning and development process (HIP0012) has one more week for discussion

Discussion
[farina] HIP on caching https://github.com/helm/community/pull/185 
Currently - when pull or install, chart is stuck in cache with index files  - creates conflicts
HIP - local cache w/ content addressability
Also helps w/ people who download the same charts over and over again
Needs two maintainers to look at
Matt Fisher
??
Also, look at to make sure there isn’t anything that can go horribly wrong
[farina] Hypper Demo https://hypper.io/ 
Built on top of Helm
For cluster admins
Install charts into separate namespaces
Joe J: shared dependencies but different values?
Farina: still working through that
Farina: currently, can alter namespace name and release
Bridget: use cases?
Farina: used by tooling, structured like helm, future wrap the sdk
[karena] new FAQs from office hour sessions


Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Marc Khouzam
Notes: Jasper Chui
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

May 6, 2021
Cancelled this week - KubeCon EU (various Helm sessions and office hours - https://events.linuxfoundation.org/kubecon-cloudnativecon-europe/program/schedule/) 

April 29, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Marc Khouzam
Notes: Matt Fisher
Issue Triage: unassigned

Announcements
[Bridget] Next release will be 3.6.0
RC planned to be cut Monday May 17th
release planned for Wednesday May 26th
[Bridget] Helm org repo audit continues
[Bridget] Sign up to participate in KubeCon EU next week: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yJyvuzHoOoQk0yiGGUXPfDUCo_mO_UWyryFURc1HOX4/edit?usp=sharing 
“Meet the maintainer” means staffing the booth in the KubeCon EU event platform
“Project office hours” are held on Bevy
[Bridget] Not having this meeting next week Thursday May 6, due to KubeCon EU. On Thursday we do have the KubeCon EU maintainer session with live chat, as well as the office hours session, for all your Helm-meeting needs. 


Discussion
[Marc] Backwards-compatibility for yaml files (Hip 0004): https://github.com/helm/community/pull/145 
Fisher: security issue based on unexpected overwrites
Fisher: solved by strict field checking
Karena: documentation of this limitation would be good
Marc: why can’t we introduce optional fields?
Fisher: older versions of Helm would have no notion of this field. Introducing a new field would break strict parsing
Fisher: let’s be cautious about circumventing security - avoid footguns
Adam: when strict checking is enabled, it doesn’t error out. It just ignore those fields. Right
Fisher: I believe strict checking does tell YAML to error out on those fields. By default those fields are ignored

[Marc] Hip 0010 for distributed pick process: https://github.com/helm/community/pull/172
Marc: This is ready for review. I left if there for when anyone has time to review

[Josh] Registry support + OCI Distribution + ORAS updates
HIP 006: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0006.md
The Distribution spec was put up for a 1.0 vote this week
There is a movement to move the oras project as a CNCF sandbox project
I will be working on the reference implementation for HIP 6. Expect that to be coming in the next month or so
Fisher: is the artifacts proposal part of the v1.0 vote or is that separate?
Josh: putting Helm charts in a registry is not an official part of the “spec”. That being said cloud vendors are supporting these solutions. So it’s not part of the vote but it’s in there.
Josh: I would ask if you can join the OCI meeting and ask about that
Paul: does harbor support Helm charts in the registry?
Josh: short answer yes

[Joe] I tried asking in slack, but can this get into 3.6? https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9425 
There's no functional change, but it does create a public library that can be used to check the release readiness after the initial deploy. This will unblock a readiness plugin I want to write, and a fluxcd capability that we need.
[Bridget] let’s try to get it some reviews after KubeCon EU?
Added to the 3.6.0 milestone for review

Assignments for next meeting (Thursday May 13th)
Moderator: Adam Reese
Notes: Karena Angell
Issue Triage: (2 weeks) - Butcher, Fisher

April 22, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Matt Farina   
Notes: Karena Angell   
Issue Triage: Matt Fisher, Joe Julian (shadow)

Announcements
[Farina] Next release will be 3.6.0
Target for Wednesday, May 26th for Kubernetes 1.21
Monday of the week before, RC will be cut - May 17th

Discussion
[Butcher] HIP for Helm 4 planning and development process (HIP0012)
What will be selected for development
When will it be worked on
How to stop the process if necessary (lack of community resources/involvement)
Acceptance: project maintainers
Mid to end of May - May 20th dev meeting, finalize comments/acceptance
Someone needs to make sure they’re looking at all the HIPs and they work well together
Shoubhik: High level themes for Helm 4?
Farina: separate process from content, but sdk changes, feature changes, etc.
Farina: define process first and pull those discussions into the bigger picture strategy for Helm 4

[Bridget] Helm org repo audit progress
Can we archive helm/hub and other inactive repos?
Let’s finish the branch rename for active repos
Progressing and will continue to progress
Farina: will help after KubeCon/CNcon


[jannfis/shoubhik] Helm integration with Argo CD
Want to talk about https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9040
We need --kube-version for “helm template” badly
Jann: Maintainer for Argo CD, in Argo community, some people are having difficulties installing charts
Fisher: validate flag - grabs kube version from live k8s cluster - possibility?
Jann: separate isolated process for processing manifests using a repo server, no live info from cluster - security requirement
Farina: is there a conflict setting the kube version and validating? Maybe specify can only have one or the other
Farina AI: will add to backlog for 3.6.0 [Bridget added to the milestone for review, as of April 29, 2021]
Shoubhik volunteering to dive deeper into use cases
Fisher: Helm 2 did not do openapi validation

[shoubhik] Curiosity question :) What’s the due diligence needed when we do kubernetes version bumps? https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9595 

[Srishti] question : I had a question around the issue I recently raised https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9620
Farina: you can still put CRDs in the templates directory
Farina: You can use a separate chart to template crds: https://helm.sh/docs/chart_best_practices/custom_resource_definitions/#method-2-separate-charts
Farina: STRONGLY suggest reading the CRDs HIP: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/main/hips/hip-0011.md
Joe Julian: important reason for CRD templating: conversion webhooks
Butcher: no changes to CRDs for the rest of Helm 3 lifecycle, Helm 4 HIPs would be a good place to discuss

[dperaza] question: Recording for last contributor summit out?
[Bridget] CNCF will release that; Helm maintainers don’t control the timing. We expect it around the end of the month.

[Scott] I’ll be archiving some repos that I understand were already discussed, and will update the spreadsheet accordingly! :-) Thanks Bridget for the reminder
Also PS, I still have not deleted the old meeting time event from my calendar, so when I’m super busy I sometimes come a half hour late. Finally deleting that now lol

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:   Marc Khouzam
Notes:  Matt Fisher 
Issue Triage: 
 
April 15, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Bridget  
Notes:    Jasper
Issue Triage:   Butcher

Announcements
[Bridget] Branch rename (to “main”)
in progress for repos under https://github.com/helm
check your repos and rename if need be!
Instructions: https://github.com/github/renaming 
Working checklist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13OjQnpzCRrdFtJ6nhzO7c7JmsKjnyJ48y63ry1GmP14/edit?usp=sharing 
[Farina] v3.5.4 released
Next release 3.6.0 Target for May for Kubernetes 1.21

Discussion
[Marc] Blog about DockerHub rate limits (see last week)
Should we clarify to community if they may think it is caused by Helm?
Could use a blog to inform community
[Joe T] Starting to collect details, could put towards google docs
[Fisher] Rate limit has been in place since last October
[Farina] Are we seeing any complaints?
[Bridget] Not directly, just hearing from community
[Bridget] To review docs and update as appropriate 
[Farina] Shameless plug: I’ll be presenting a new project based on Helm and charts ... next wednesday in the Rancher meetup… https://info.rancher.com/online-meetup-april2021  
[Bridget] Should we use the GitHub “archive” setting on helm/charts and helm/monocular, among others? (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13OjQnpzCRrdFtJ6nhzO7c7JmsKjnyJ48y63ry1GmP14/edit?usp=sharing) 
[Farina] Has a list of repos to be archived
Monocular: Ready to be archived. Need to inform community
Bridget to connect with Farina to create list of repos to be archived
[Butcher] Only maintainers can / should archive repos
[Marc K] What is the process to identify which PR to include in a release?
[Farina] Only the PRs that were closed 
[Butcher] https://github.com/helm/community/pull/145 - backward-compat HIP
[Fisher] Needs to be approved by core maintainer
[Marc K] Are referenced implementations required?
[Fisher] If HIP requires one then it should
Marc to remove referenced implementation section
[Marc] Should we have a master list of what cannot change?
[Butcher] Agree that it should be in the www documentation. Not required before HIP is approved.
[Fisher] Question deferred to future discussion
[Marc] HIP will be used for backward compatibility criteria
[Bridget] PRs to be reviewed 

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Matt Farina   
Notes: Karena   
Issue Triage: Matt Fisher, Joe Julian (shadow)  


April 8, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Marc K 
Notes: Karena A   
Issue Triage:  Adam and Bridget

Announcements
[Bridget] Branch rename (to “main”)
 in progress for repos under https://github.com/helm
check your repos and rename if need be!
Instructions: https://github.com/github/renaming 
[Bridget] Helm Contributor Summit is a wrap!
CNCF will publish videos.
Shout out to Karen Chu and Matt Butcher for all their work putting it together.
[Bridget] get those bug fixes in!
3.5.4 will contain only bug fixes and be released on April 14, 2021
New “pick” process should help with release
Marc wants to help w/ release
AI: Whoever is cutting the release, pull Marc in

Discussion
[Bridget] Dockerhub rate limiting and defaults
Potential problem (in https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/aks/ingress-basic#create-an-ingress-controller) to use a helm chart that points to dockerhub which may have rate limiting (https://github.com/kubernetes/ingress-nginx/blob/master/charts/ingress-nginx/values.yaml#L494)   
Potential change: https://github.com/kubernetes/ingress-nginx/pull/7018/files (to decouple the registry and repository)
Anything else to consider here?
[fisher] the CNCF struck a deal with DockerHub so that any CNCF projects will not be rate limited. ingress-nginx and others may fall into that category. https://github.com/cncf/servicedesk#my-project-is-affected-by-the-docker-hub-rate-limits-policy-changes-what-can-i-do
Bridget: where should this be documented? ArtifactHub? Helm docs?
Karena: blog post, Scott +1
Scott Rigby: we can communicate to users about how this might affect them - charts have images configurable for helm values
Joe Julian: Helm users might not be k8s admins and might not know about dockerhub rate limits - pointing it out in documentation might be useful
Scott: even people who use k8s frequently, they might not know where in the supply chain it’s pulled from 
Bridget: cya for Helm, not a prob created by Helm
Joe J: be aware of your rate limits
Joe Thompson: It would be nice if Docker themselves displayed something in the docker logs about "rate limit in effect for this repo" but I dunno if that's even possible with the way Docker works.
Joe: “Turns out they do!  https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/download-rate-limit/#how-can-i-check-my-current-rate”
AI: Blog post, start a draft next week, volunteers?

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:   Bridget  
Notes:    Jasper
Issue Triage:   Butcher


April 1 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:    Adam Reese
Notes:   Karena Angell
Issue Triage:   Matt Farina

Announcements
[Martin] Rename of “main” branch
Mostly redirection
Look at Helm slack channel for details
GitHub will pop-up info too
Bridget: clean up for others?
Martin: yes, maintainer by maintainer AI
Maintainers AI: Update your repos
[Farina] Archiving of Monocular
Blog tbd saying ‘use ArtifactHub instead of Monocular’
[Karena] Contributor Summit on Tuesday! April 6

Discussion
[Farina] The --dependency-update flag, it’s docs, and it is not matching its functionality… https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9545
Create documentation that says ‘only updates in this case’
Create another flag that updates everything
Clean up in Helm 4
Only returns if there are missing dependencies: https://github.com/helm/helm/blob/213a7df2dcd07e8d49fc6acf8a53a540c661ed53/cmd/helm/install.go#L216
Bug since Helm 2.9 or .. ?
Joe T: deprecate the old flag, define 2 new flags
Farina: no deprecation cycle, mark for removal in Helm v4
Farina AI: Document the ticket to remove
[Marc] HIP-0010: "Cherry-pick a PR into the release branch right after it is merged into main"
Marc AI: add a section for the security patch
[Farina] chart cache in helm https://github.com/helm/helm/issues/9561 
Index.yaml, use digest to go look at cache
Bridget: bandwidth discussion, what gets cached, what doesn’t
Farina: that was about binaries, so prob no impact
Scott: careful with changes in index.yaml, sounds good
[Karena] Investigate artifact signing? https://sigstore.dev/what_is_sigstore/
Farina: provenance files are pgp signed
Farina AI: Go learn about it

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:    Marc K 
Notes: Karena A   
Issue Triage:  Adam and Bridget


March 25, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:   Martin Hickey
Notes:  Jasper Chui
Issue Triage:  Matt Butcher

Announcements
 [Bridget] get those bug fixes in!
3.5.4 will contain only bug fixes and be released on April 14, 2021
When would we like to cut an RC?
[Farina] No RC for Patch 
3.6.0 is the next feature release and will be released on May 26, 2021
Depending on k8s release schedule (on track)
Followup end of April on release status
Contributor Summit April 6, 2021
Helm Contributor Summit - Tues Apr 6, 2021
Register: https://community.cncf.io/events/details/cncf-cncf-helm-community-presents-helm-contributor-summit-2021/#/  
[Bridget] Reach out to Karen if you want to register as an organizer
[Fisher] Need an LF account to register as an organizer
Discussion
 [Farina] Archiving Monocular https://github.com/helm/monocular (Web UI for Helm Chart repositories)
Maintainers are in agreement to archive project
Target next week to archive
Replaced by Artifacthub.io
Documents to be updated:
https://helm.sh/docs/community/related/#additional-tools
[Farina] Hackweek project: How to navigate source code - https://codeengineered.com/blog/2021/helm-vid-series/ 
Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:    Adam Reese
Notes:   Karena Angell
Issue Triage:   Matt Farina

March 18, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Josh D
Notes:  Bridget K
Issue Triage: Josh Dolitsky

Announcements
 
 

Discussion
 [Marc] Details of the “needs-pick” process? 
Label goes on bugs that need to go into a patch release (not a minor)
What if no patch release until minor release?
[fisher] If there’s no need to cherry-pick, then we remove the “needs-pick” label.
Not features (features don’t go into patch releases)
Does a milestone need to be added/created?
[fisher] For a patch release, yes.
What query to use? 
is:pr label:needs-pick -label:picked
[fisher] it looks like a number of PRs need to be triaged in that query.
Butcher: ideally, add “picked” and remove “needs-pick”
Marc: found some needs-pick and they ended up in a minor release
Butcher: minor-release might not mark as picked for those pre-picked for a patch release - from the last minor onwards is likely the only that need it
Resolution: Marc will change labels as desired to correct inconsistencies


[Simon Croome] - Linter name validation rules: https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9416  
Simon: in 3.3.0, change to add name validation
Simon: PRs in place to try to correct this (inferring from k8s API is challenging - match on object Kind?)
Simon: hoping to get movement on this as it’s blocking us from doing releases
Butcher: Adam can look at PR
Josh: can you pool the cases from k8s?
Butcher: API server in k8s does validation after determining if validation is well-formed
Bridget: 3.5.4 will contain only bug fixes and be released on April 14, 2021 - can we get this PR reviewed by then?
Butcher: yes, this goes in bugfix. Josh to look first, then Adam

[Butcher] Helm Contributor Summit - Tues Apr 6, 2021
Register: https://community.cncf.io/events/details/cncf-cncf-helm-community-presents-helm-contributor-summit-2021/#/  

[Farina] Dropping support for Go < 1.14 … https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9355
Farina: Cobra dropped below 1.14 support
Marc: confirms that Cobra won’t confirm 1.14 soon but this hasn’t happened yet
Farina: the only supported Go versions are 1.15 and 1.16

Butcher: GitHub had a security alert - we audited and are fine.

Josh: I was doing triage this week - do we have rules around squashing vs merge commits
Farina: no consistency
Butcher: we had a rule about squashing but haven’t enforced it in at least two years
Josh: sounds like we don’t have an answer to this?
Discussion ensues and we find that Butcher, Farina, Bridget, Joe, and more all dislike squashing and history rewrites, so we are not going to mandate any of that.

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:   Marc K
Notes:  Jasper Chui
Issue Triage:  Matt Butcher


March 11, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Josh
Notes: Karena
Issue Triage: Butcher

Announcements
[Farina] Helm 3.5.3 released
3.5.4 will contain only bug fixes and be released on April 14, 2021
3.6.0 is the next feature release and will be released on May 26, 2021. 
[Bridget] get.helm.sh funding renewed  
[Butcher & Karen] Helm Contributor Summit - Tues Apr 6, 2021
Register: https://community.cncf.io/events/details/cncf-cncf-helm-community-presents-helm-contributor-summit-2021/#/  
[Bridget] KubeCon EU 2021 Helm content:
Helm Users! What Flux 2 Can Do For You - Scott Rigby & Kingdon Barrett, Weaveworks 
Mainly for Helm-only users
Taking the Helm: Becoming a Maintainer - Bridget Kromhout & Matt Butcher, Microsoft; Karena Angell, Red Hat; Matt Farina, Rancher Labs 
Office hours (Karen arranging)
Helm project pavilion booth (Karen arranging)
[Farina] Helm 2nd security audit - https://helm.sh/blog/helm-2nd-security-audit/ 
Also includes threat analysis

Discussion
[Adam] Helm examples repo 
https://github.com/helm/examples
Created a straw man - looking for any help
Bridget: former stable/incubating repo is a good place to start for any docs help
Farina: let’s use best practices
Scott: volunteering to help / charts team would be good volunteers too
AI: Scott to start an issue in the repo for brainstorming
Scott: GH Discussions?
Bridget: Not now - the tldr is I’ve seen other projects turn it on, find it unmaintainable, turn it off, and find out that they’ve now hidden all the past discussions. Sounds not quite ready for prime time.
[Bridget] get.helm.sh download metrics: how should we surface them?
Fisher: using verizon cdn, unsure how to pull metrics, maybe could scrape the mgmt portal
AI: no AI
[Devdatta Kulkarni] highlighting KubePlus (https://github.com/cloud-ark/kubeplus)
Presentation: https://github.com/cloud-ark/kubeplus/blob/master/KubePlus-presentation.pdf
Multi-tenant application stacks
Wrap api around the Helm chart  
Butcher: resourcePolicy sounds like a good idea
Able to collect consumption metrics now
Might be interesting to folks from Orkestra (https://github.com/Azure/orkestra)
[Joe] Issue w storage size for secrets
Fisher: opt in to configmaps, move from 2 to 3
Fisher: talking about alternate storage backends (like mysql)
https://helm.sh/docs/topics/advoanced/#configmap-storage-backend

Postponed to March 18 [Marc] Details of the “needs-pick” process? 
Label goes on bugs that need to go into a patch release (not a minor)
What if no patch release until minor release?
Not features (features don’t go into patch releases)
Does a milestone need to be added/created?
What query to use? 
is:pr label:needs-pick -label:picked

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:  Matt Farina
Notes:  Scott Rigby
Issue Triage: Josh Dolitsky


March 4, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Bridget
Notes: Butcher
Issue Triage: Fisher

Announcements
[Bridget] 3.5.3 milestone due March 10, 2021: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/107 
Cut-off for the Helm release is tomorrow, Mar 5
Only two issues in the milestone, and changes have not been made, so may be removed from release
[Butcher & Karen] Helm Contributor Summit - Tues Apr 6, 2021
Register: https://community.cncf.io/events/details/cncf-cncf-helm-community-presents-helm-contributor-summit-2021/#/  
Workshop to help new contributors and those who may want to become maintainers
TA-style maintainers needed for Q&A during chat 
KubeCon EU: Karen arranging booth and office hours; Bridget arranging recording of contributor-onboarding maintainer session: https://sched.co/iE6C 
Office hours: Zoom calls at specific times where people can join and chat
Karen will tell us when it is time to sign up
Karena, Bridget, and “various Matts” will do a talk

Discussion
[Bridget] followup on Brendan’s idea about a Helm label project?
Butcher’s action item was to send info to Farina who was going to talk to sig-apps
Next SIG-Apps meeting is next Monday
[Scott & Farina] progress on opening up the functions to the SDK?
Blocked on OCI experimental flag
Josh: There is a branch open with some Push (abstraction) work. Oras is also going through some changes to make it more CNCF-supported (maybe part of the distribution project).
[Karena] Update on CI/CD?
Farina: Issue is that GitHub actions are pulling Helm fresh each time
Caching is not as airtight as it should be… no best practices. So we are stalled
Shoubhik will take a look at it. “Is there an issue to look at?”
Farina: Maybe on www repo?
Brief discussion on docs for release process https://helm.sh/docs/community/release_checklist/


Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Josh
Notes: Karena
Issue Triage: Butcher

February 25, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Marc K
Notes: Scott
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

Announcements
[Bridget] 3.5.3 milestone due March 10, 2021: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/107 
Review issues/pr and add to milestone as appropriate 
Target week before (March 3) due date

Discussion
[Butcher & Karen] Helm Contributor’s Summit - Tues Apr 6, 2021
Website is live! https://community.cncf.io/events/details/cncf-cncf-helm-community-presents-helm-contributor-summit-2021/#/ 
Need volunteers to present
Registration on the website
Single track. See Agenda on website
One goal of this is to help those contributors who may eventually become maintainers
Plan to work w CNCF to have a dedicated slack channel for this event. People can ask Qs there, and TAs can jump in and answer questions without interrupting the speaker. "backchannel"
No cost for attending the event
[Farina] How much of this covers parts of the Helm project that aren't helm/helm (chartmuseum, chart-releaser, etc)
[Butcher] mainly focused on Helm org, community repo, documentation, and helm/helm (the biggest process load)
Need more maintainers to help organize
[Scott] happy to help with various things, including charts and tooling related repos


[Butcher] Brendan’s idea about a Helm label project
k8s in general is trying to come up with more labels, but no org happy to take that on
Brendan thought, since Helm is how most people organize their manifests, could Helm help canonicalize this?
Butcher talked with a few people already, but this would be the forum
Farina: if it's not documented somewhere, I think that would be great
example "icon" - no standard label for application icon yet
Farina (re SIG Apps): would this be better to expand in k8s common labels there, or here?
[Joe J] was thinking SIG Apps so that it can be used in other projects e.g. kudo 
Farina will take this to SIG Apps to see if that is the right place. If not will bring it back to here
[Fisher] if it comes back to here, a HIP is a good way to go
[Farina] would like to see this at a higher level, not buried in documentation. One nice thing in `helm create` it populates these for you. Otherwise these are ont easily discoverable
[Scott] What steps are needed to open up the functions to the SDK
getter is already open
one thing that would help open up is the registry client currently in internal package in helm 
Scott: Yes we have semver contracts and don’t want to screw those up - but what do we need to get the OCI support finished?
Farina in same boat. but 2 things would like to have before we make public
1. APIs solidified. Not sure if done, must talk w Josh
2. doesn't want to use logrus as a dependency because they're not in maintenance mode. Ideally would not like to pull this in
3. Really like to see ORAS repo (https://github.com/deislabs/oras) moved out of deislabs and into its own org
Fisher OCI is still considered a draft.
Scott: can we keep the experimental flag but also make functions avail to SDK?
Fisher: some things (like catalog items) changing over time - if stable, we won’t break compatibility
Scott: hmmm.. Own package/repo for versioning?
Farina: Scott, do you have time? Action item: Farina and Scott to connect and write a plan.


Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Bridget
Notes: Butcher
Issue Triage: Fisher

February 18, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Scott
Notes: Jasper
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

Announcements
[Bridget] 3.5.3 milestone due March 10, 2021: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/107 
Review issues/pr and add to milestone as appropriate 
Target week before (March 3) due date

Discussion
[Marc] HIP for a distributed pick process https://github.com/helm/community/pull/172 
Process for Patch release identify needs-pick labelled items to include
Person approves into master also responsible for including in release branch
[Farina] What would be the process to handle a security release?
Create a separate branch for Security Release based on previous release
Does this work for the two recent security releases?
Discuss proposal on how to handle releases and branches under different scenarios
Merge back commits from hot fix branch back to master
Looking for reviewers and feedback
[Marc] HIP for descriptions for custom completions https://github.com/helm/community/pull/161 
Cobra has improved handling auto complete
Where does the description come from?
Pulls from various sources
Looking for reviewers and feedback
Scott: I'll look closer from a charts end user POV 
[Bridget] good first issue label - can we revisit this one? https://github.com/helm/helm/labels/good%20first%20issue is very stale
Looking for additional issues that could be labelled with “good first issue”

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Marc K
Notes: Scott
Issue Triage: Matt Farina

February 11, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Bridget
Notes: Karena
Issue Triage: Matt Butcher

Announcements
Artifact Hub: Values Schema Reference  [Farina] https://blog.artifacthub.io/blog/helm-values-schema-reference/ 
Discussion
When a release fails to update (after the upgrade of Kubernetes manifests) should we display a message or return an error [Farina]
Inconsistent between Install and Upgrade/rollback
On Install we display a message to debug log
Comment in action install says…
// This is a tricky case. The release has been created, but the result
// cannot be recorded. The truest thing to tell the user is that the
// release was created. However, the user will not be able to do anything
// further with this release.
//
// One possible strategy would be to do a timed retry to see if we can get
// this stored in the future.
On upgrade/rollback we return an error
It will upgrade all the k8s assets, doesn’t actually store the secret 
[M Butcher] Failure of etcd to store something 
If recorded, will show installing
[Farina] Just return a non 0 exit code
https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9131 is looking to add a case where another error could be returned on upgrade/rollback
[Scott] should this be a bugfix?
GitHub Discussions [Farina]
Disabling github discussions: https://github.com/dotnet/aspnetcore/issues/29935
[Bridget] What happens to existing discussions?
[Scott] Will test 
Discussions last longer than issues
Homebrew is using discussions
[M Butcher] Is GH Discussions basically “Stack Overflow by GitHub”
[Bridget] yes, but don't have the management granularity, would it make it harder for ourselves?
[Scott] has default categories, can change categories at any point
Threaded answers, user or maintainer can select the correct answer
[Josh/Bridget] more things to check / more work for the community/maintainers?
[Farina] Will send to helm mailing list and other maintainers, revisit in a week or two.
Better CI practices [Farina & Butcher]
Costs a lot for downloads every month
Example: homebrew ~ $25k/mo
Document best practices
[Scott] GH actions have artifacts, will look into also look into caching across jobs
[Bridget] define how to be more prescriptive
TO DO: “CI Best Practices” on helm docs
Question about CRDs during helm upgrade [Scott]
If a CRD exists we don’t try to apply it - but what about updates?
Could we have a similar functionality on “helm upgrade” to what we have on “helm install”?
Read: https://github.com/helm/community/blob/f9e06c16d89ccea1bea77c01a6a96ae3b309f823/architecture/crds.md
Explains pitfalls of handling crd’s
Farina has opinions :)

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Scott
Notes: Jasper
Issue Triage: Farina

February 4, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:  Adam Reese
Notes: Jasper Chui
Issue Triage: Matt Farina   

Announcements
ChartMuseum v0.13.0 released today (currently in progress..)
Follows Helm’s release process: same artifact store (get.helm.sh), installer script, release notes, signatures, etc.
Docker image on GitHub Container Registry

Discussion
Cancelling patch release of Feb 10th? (4 weeks after 3.5.0) [Marc]
policy https://helm.sh/docs/topics/release_policy/#patch-releases 
Should this be cancelled per policy
[Butcher] Security team scheduled release today so it makes sense to cancel patch release
Next patch will be in March
Patches in current release will be bumped to 3.5.3
HIP for a distributed pick process https://github.com/helm/community/pull/172 [Marc]
Please review, if approved will impact all maintainers 
Recent intermittent CircleCI failures - perhaps we need to consider changes to the build pipeline? [Bridget]
[Butcher] Security issue was found and should be fixed today
Chart releaser action docs update? https://github.com/helm/helm-www/pull/928 [Bridget]
Scott says circle back
[Scott] Reviewed and will leave suggestions for owner to review
Creating a 4.0 milestone? [Marc]
4.0 should be delayed as long as possible but good to have community to start tracking
[Butcher] Milestone 3.0 was opened a year before so good to do the same for 4.0
[Bridget] Label already exists for 4.0 https://github.com/helm/helm/labels/v4.x 
Label is sufficient to track 4.0 work
--hide-secrets https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9130 Discussion on the state of the PR [Shoubhik]
Does not work for template but works for Helm Install
[Adam] Important for this to work with templates
Quick update on planning the contributor summit [Butcher]
Topics: How to contribute to project, How to become core maintainer 
Curriculum in progress (Butcher, Bridget, Karen)
Talk to CNCF to determine timeframe for sessions
Talk to this (Bridget, Karen, Butcher)  if you are interested in presenting, working on curriculum

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Scott
Notes:  Bridget
Issue Triage:  Butcher

January 28, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Bridget
Notes:  Jasper
Issue Triage: Josh Dolitsky

Announcements
3.5.1 milestone in progress
Rebuild of 3.5.0 with new version of Go (today) with security updates
No other patches
Patches and updates will become 3.5.2
Learning Helm [written by Matts and Josh]
Covers introduction and how to use it
Commands of Helm
Position within CNCF
Charts
Registries and plugin
Appendix on differences between v2 and v3
To be published soon

Discussion
Storage improvement brainstorming [Joe Julian] https://github.com/stedolan/jq/issues/2257
Config and secrets can be very large
Helm v3: limits to history of 10 items
Exception if its failing: capture failure log
Helm used to use Config maps, want Helm to be usable out of box
Used secrets as it is simple and just works
Alternative (CRD) may require additional permissions 
Alternative postgres 
Looking for alternatives that could fit requirement to be used out of box
Etcd pulls entire dataset
Split secrets into two parts
Split manifest into its own object (separate namespace)
Config: helm release, secret: metadata
Where would Values go?
Secrets stored in secrets (can be referenced)
[Igor] Confirm that we are trying to simplify how to store runtime data?
Alternatives: postgres service, sqllite, aggregated api server
[Matt] Enterprise wanted simpler format
[Matt] different than programming locally
Helm is a package manager (need to keep this space)
Need higher level tool to manage complexity (ansible, chef, flux helm operator)
Need to make sure when we scale up we handle the simpler case and need to reduce complexity for easy
Simple case easy to use with Helm, don’t want to optimize for the complex case
[Igor] Just to be clear: I wasn't raising the point Helm should do more than it does, what I'm saying is there are several ways of interacting with a store, from going "secrets" to CRDs; when using CRDs there is the alternative of storing the runtime data in Etcd (with its limitations) or promote it to a cluster wide aggregated API, where the limitations of Etcd and some other complexities could be avoided.
Joe to open an issue to continue the conversation to determine next step (HIP or PR)
Test failure in https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9276  - apparent mismatch between testing/mariadb 0.3.0-0565674 and testing/mariadb 0.3.0 - action needed? [Bridget]
in https://app.circleci.com/pipelines/github/helm/helm/2106/workflows/fad17fdc-61dd-4558-9704-b6d930568cc6/jobs/13653 
--- FAIL: TestSearchRepositoriesCmd/search_for_'maria',_expect_one_match_with_semver_begin_with_zero_development_version (0.00s) 
helm_test.go:61: running cmd (attempt 1): search repo maria --devel --repository-config testdata/helmhome/helm/repositories.yaml --repository-cache testdata/helmhome/helm/repository helm_test.go:67: does not match golden file testdata/output/search-semver-pre-zero-devel-release.txt
[Fisher] just a test fluke - never seen it before. Likely just a rebase error. Re-running the test suite passed.


Hiding secrets - is this a blocker we should resolve quickly? [Bridget] https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/9130 
[Farina] Should hide secrets in log
Should this be in next release as low hanging fruit
[Farina] Should look into this issue
[Shoubhik] Can take a look into this issue : Done
[Scott] fun question: what blockers would we have to revisit the idea of installing missing CRDs from the /crds dir at the version level
[Farina] What do you mean by version level? CRD capture all version info in each CRD
Creating a 4.0 milestone to track any feature needing a major release [Marc]
(but we should avoid a 4.0 as long as possible in my opinion)
[Shoubhik] Should not signify that its coming
[Farina] There could be a mismatch
[Bridget] Stick with milestone 4.0
[Karena] Charts Chat - is that still active, I have a standing conflict and the notes doc was last updated in 2019
Is this still happening?
[Farina] Should be cancelled. Meeting has not been held since 2019.
[Farina] Meeting has been cancelled.
[Karena] If people still need help with Charts should they be directed to this meeting?
Direct to charts channel in community slack
[Farina] Topics has been covered in this meeting or directly in issues

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:  Adam Reese
Notes: Karena
Issue Triage: Matt Farina   


January 21, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Matt Farina
Notes:  Karena  
Issue Triage: Matt Butcher

Announcements
None this week

Discussion
3.5.1- https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/107 
Patch fix milestone
Updating kube libraries for 1.20.2
Maintainer doesn’t have to do the upgrades for the libraries
Usually aren’t breaking
Volunteer? Shoubhik will attempt
If need to release Go security patch, 3.5.1 will only the security patch and 3.5.2 will be the rest
Performance improvements [Farina]
Index.yaml updates
Previously, 8mb yaml file - slow to parse
Json so much faster to parse, both in memory and operations
Index.json to cut down on processing time (vs index.yaml)
[Matt Fisher] Redirect? (might be a breaking change)
Farina: perhaps a start - look at what’s on artifact hub. Explore further.
Helm repositories with Git [Igor]
Suggestion: parse tar balls on the fly - grab directly from git
[Igor] Example: https://github.com/otaviof/chart-streams
[Bridget] GitHub pages example: https://helm.sh/docs/topics/chart_repository/#github-pages-example
[Farina] Helm is meant to be simple and like seeing people using the API
[Matt Fisher] there’s a section in documentation to point to projects
Nice that it demonstrates the chart repository api
[Bridget] here is where you can PR in a link: https://github.com/helm/helm-www/blob/master/content/en/docs/community/related.md
[Josh Dolitsky] Similar, but using plugin vs. http(s): https://github.com/aslafy-z/helm-git
Storage improvement brainstorming [Joe Julian - deferring a week]

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Bridget
Notes:  Jasper
Issue Triage: Josh Dolitsky

January 14, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator:     Marc K
Notes:  Bridget  
Issue Triage:  Shoubhik, tbd

Announcements
3.5.0 released [Farina] - https://github.com/helm/helm/releases/tag/v3.5.0 
Bridget to coordinate a blog post; Farina to review
3.5.1 milestone: https://github.com/helm/helm/milestone/107 (second Wed in Feb)
Date for next minor release [Marc]
3.6 RC1: Monday May 17th, 2021
3.6 final release: Wednesday May 26th, 2021
Marc to update calendar
 Helm plugins in Artifact Hub [Farina]
(for example, https://artifacthub.io/packages/helm-plugin/helm-2to3/2to3) 
List and search - artifact hub is like a search engine
To do: add this to helm docs


Discussion
Dependabot recommendations (https://github.com/helm/helm/pulls/app%2Fdependabot) - what action do we want to take? [Bridget]
bump k8s.io/[various] from 0.20.1 to 0.20.2
https://github.com/stretchr/testify update
Older containerd issue
Farina: we shouldn’t do the k8s ones through dependabot - we should do these - cherry-pick into 3.5.1
But the containerd one is a tough one - a transitive dependency we need to update - we ideally would prefer ORAS to update this
The testify one could probably be merged & marked as needs-pick - may work best for 3.6 not 3.5.x
Picks for patches [Farina]
Marking “needs pick” and then picking them - not a long period of sitting in the branch
More difficult if the main branch has diverged far from the release branch
Ideally, whoever merges marks as needs pick and pushes to release branch - would make patch releases quicker
Marc: we could move this towards a “make release” if this were made more consistent
Butcher: now that we do releases more consistently, we can pick onto the branch sooner rather than later
Marc: how about a process HIP to document this? (willing to write it but others can help)
Plugin discussion for artifact hub [Butcher]
Butcher: Might we want “helm plugin search”?
Farina: artifact hub is API driven so external tools are entirely possible
Butcher: we could do this as a feature HIP
Bucket redirections [Butcher]
Farina: no problem thus far
KubeCon video [Bridget]
Should be a sea shanty
Helm 4 wishlist
Date formatting [issues open already] [Bridget]
Storage - too large of release storage objects bring kubernetes api to its knees [Joe Julian]
Farina: we should iterate on this in an experimental fashion in v3
Could do a tool to migrate from secrets to postgres
Context-specific storage options instead of env variables
Joe Julian: also we read all the secrets to get metadata but just need the metadata itself
Joe Thompson: 1meg request limit also is an issue
Igor Sutton Lopes: can we use something other than etcd?
Farina: we can’t assume people can install anywhere other than their clusters
Igor: alternative backends for storage - discussion for next week
Farina: with secrets we have encryption, so we have to consider that and not just push secrets to git - could be opt-in

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator:  Farina
Notes:   Karena
Issue Triage:  Butcher


January 7, 2021
Assignments for this meeting
Moderator: Bridget   
Notes: Karena 
Issue Triage: Farina/Josh/Shoubhik  

Announcements
3.5.0 Milestone · GitHub - 3.5 RC2 (https://github.com/helm/helm/releases/tag/v3.5.0-rc.2)  was cut on Wednesday Jan 6 2021, and 3.5 will be released Wednesday Jan 13 2021.

Discussion
We must select the date for the next minor release [Marc]
Move discussion to the mailing list for consensus?
[Farina] april 19-23 is release week, suggesting May 12, first week after KubeCon Europe (virtual)
Tentative date: 
Big risk - any changes from kube release
Want to make sure follow a quarterly release cadence
[marc, farina] suggesting follow new kube release schedule - 3 x’s a year
[farina] suggesting May 26, rc1 would be May 17
[marc] to send email to maintainer list
[shoubhik] how to check api changes?
Check docs, not easy question
[bridget] would you like to check api questions that may affect helm?
[farina] any k8s go api changes could break anything for helm
Tracking changes may be more work than just fixing what’s breaking
When should a patch release be cancelled? [Marc]
https://github.com/helm/community/issues/160
Final point to finish HIP2 (Pre-defined release dates for Helm) https://github.com/helm/community/blob/master/hips/hip-0002.md
[fisher] justification to cancel a patch release?
[farina] canceled patch release because minor release (superseded)
[fisher] patch release == low severity bugs that affect the smallest number of users
[bridget] if within x days, judgement call
If within 7 days, wait for minor release to save time for release managers
Needs more discussion
Asset pipeline: https://github.com/helm/helm/pull/8697/ - let’s discuss “add Asset Transparency action for GitHub releases” in regards to our CI/CD [Butcher]
 Asset Transparency project
[butcher] if generally in favor, would like to get merged
Please look at and comment so decision can be made w/i the next week
Contributor Workshop
[bridget] working w CNCF to schedule the workshop
[Butcher] 2-block format
1 - Non-maintainer
2 - People who are interested in becoming a core maintainer
Karen has already reached out to people who have done this before
Timeline: Late first quarter, early second quarter
Who wants to volunteer from core maintainers for Kube preso?
Martin?
Bridget will coordinate 

Assignments for next meeting
Moderator: Marc
Notes: Josh 
Issue Triage: Shoubhik (non-maintainer issues), tbd